Evolution and God

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Evolution and God

Postby zetreque on April 3rd, 2018, 2:06 am 

I seem to often encounter scientists that believe in both the theory of evolution and God. This especially puzzles me when it's biologists or other evolution related scientists because the two are somewhat conflicting. It's like believing in evolution is believing that all life evolved from a simple life-form 3.5-5 billion years ago. Do people who believe in God and evolution think that God created life that long ago? Is it just because we haven't yet recreated life from building blocks in a lab? Science is based on observation and evidence and I don't see any evidence of God so I find scientists who believe in God to be a contradiction.

Can anyone share some insight into how this thinking works?
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Re: Evolution and God

Postby edy420 on April 14th, 2018, 4:43 am 

Abiogenis takes the term “miracle” and relabels it as “random spontaneity”

Or maybe it’s just me and I don’t understand the difference?
Looking at it from my point of view, it’s easy to see how there’s no real contradiction when believing in both an omnipotent creator and scientific understanding.

Recreating it in a lab would do wonders for a better understanding of the miracle ingredient.
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Re: Evolution and God

Postby Zanthius on April 14th, 2018, 5:48 pm 

zetreque » April 3rd, 2018, 1:06 am wrote:Can anyone share some insight into how this thinking works?


Humans aren't completely rational. Things we learn during early childhood can have strong emotional associations, and are stored very deep in our neural structures:

Image

This isn't just related to religion BTW. You might have strong emotional associations to Christmas (and/or other celebrations), The Bill of Rights (or a Monarch if you are living in a monarchy), Weddings, Funerals, etc.

For a deeply religious person, there are just so many strong and nice emotional associations to the religion. The rational mind doesn't want to mess with your nice emotional associations, so it stays away.

Even if you are an atheist, I think you should be able to find irrational "nice" emotional associations in yourself, that your rational mind doesn't want to mess with. None of us are completely rational.
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Re: Evolution and God

Postby zetreque on April 16th, 2018, 3:02 am 

No one has talked to this point yet.
zetreque » Mon Apr 02, 2018 11:06 pm wrote:Science is based on observation and evidence and I don't see any evidence of God so I find scientists who believe in God to be a contradiction.


To pull a quote off google
Science is
the intellectual and practical activity encompassing the systematic study of the structure and behavior of the physical and natural world through observation and experiment.


If you are a scientist, I would think that you should believe in what you observe finding evidence in your reality that you build off of scientific principles. To be a scientist and believe in God, you would have to be observing evidence for God. It's flawed though because it's non-impirical. It's shaping evidence to fit faith rather than the other way around. Perhaps people think they are seeing miracles as their evidence when the "miracles" have perfectly logical explanations based on science and not anecdotal belief.
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Re: Evolution and God

Postby KyCoo on April 17th, 2018, 5:43 am 

Although I do believe that there is a power that has made the world (as we call it God) I still can't wrap my thoughts around the "man-made" God and religion that divides people and causes havoc.
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Re: Evolution and God

Postby edy420 on April 19th, 2018, 2:27 am 

Zetreque,

Where is the evidence for abiogenisis or the Big Bang.
Either could have been created by the hand of god.
Einstein thought of the laws of physics themselves as being evidence of a creator.

It takes faith to believe that none of these are evidence of a creator.
Simply because we don’t fully understand them and we don’t have cold hard evidence that scientifically explains them.

Some Big Bang theories don’t have a universe of atoms all squished together, in fact some theories suggest our universe just keeps shrinking indefinitely, the further back in time we look.
But we use faith to pick a theory that suits us.

It takes faith to argue that the laws of physics are not simply the will of god.
It takes faith to argue that god does not exist, because there is no evidence that he doesn’t exist (chuckles)
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Re: Evolution and God

Postby zetreque on April 19th, 2018, 10:17 am 

I disagree. One is reality and one is imaginary. God is imaginary. I think my point is that science works with reality. By reality I mean actual observations that you can see and touch and not far out there concepts.

People that believe in God live in an imaginary world. At least the laws of physics, etc is built from the ground up framework of observations that work for everyone no matter what your faith.
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Re: Evolution and God

Postby edy420 on April 19th, 2018, 12:56 pm 

There is only one law of physics, the law of reality.
As humans we like to separate things based on our perception.

We write in our books that each observation represents a different law.
But the only thing that differentiates each law, is our human perception.
A plane does not fly based on only the laws of aerodynamics.
The laws of gravity, motion, aerodynamics etc are all intertwined, you can’t have one without the other.

So then, our perception that each law is separate, that is imagination.
What are you really perceiving then?

I got the idea of one law from Einstein’s perspective.
Einstein perceived each law as being separate.
But he said we could never fully understand each one.
If we could write down every aspect of each law in a separate book, then each book would be infinitely long.
Not only that but there are an infinite number of laws.
By thinking of them as books, he went on to say that there would be an infinite number of books to, which is evident today as we continually discover new laws.
Infinitely large books, in an infinitely large library.
He asks, is there an author of these books, and an owner of the library.

Using common denomination we see that there is just one “infinitely” large book, ie one law.
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Re: Evolution and God

Postby edy420 on April 19th, 2018, 1:15 pm 

Sensory perception is also based on imagination.
You think you can touch wood, but really, the atoms in your hand will never make contact with the atoms of anything.

You think the grass is green, but really it’s just the way that light is reflected off it’s cells, it’s not actually green.

You think that poo stinks, but really it’s just particles not much different from the particles of fragrant roses.

You think objects make sounds when they crash together, but they don’t.
They simply cause vibrations with the air around them.

It’s your imagination that makes you believe these are all real perceptions of reality, when in fact you are misled.
We give terms to differentiate our perceptions like hearing, seeing, feeling.
But what good are these terms to anything that does not have the five senses of human perception.

Many people trust in their perception of God, the way that you trust in your senses.
Last edited by edy420 on April 19th, 2018, 1:23 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Evolution and God

Postby zetreque on April 19th, 2018, 1:18 pm 

edy420 » Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:15 am wrote:
Many people trust in their perception of God, the way that you trust in your senses.


So you are proposing there is a sense for God just like there is a sense for sight or touch?
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Re: Evolution and God

Postby edy420 on April 20th, 2018, 7:15 am 

No.
For the “educated” or the “intellegent” I think faith in God requires the understanding that we know next to nothing about reality.
Our perception of reality is not just limited, it is false.

We can’t hear high pitch sounds like a dog can.
We can’t sense radio waves, many micro waves, low voltage etc

Without our 5 senses, reality is just a bunch of atomic clusters that interact over an infinite time period.

With our 5 senses, we know it is much more.
Thanks to science and the creation of artificial sensors, we know that reality is more than what our 5 senses perceive.

How differently would we understand the world with 10 senses.
100 senses, or the Godly number of senses, infinite.
Compared to God, we know very little.

Faith in God is quite simply another perspective on reality.
A perspective that does not require limited sensory body parts.
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Re: Evolution and God

Postby zetreque on April 20th, 2018, 11:20 am 

There is no other perspective on reality.
I can't just say my perspective is that frozen water lights my hand on fire.
Or all dogs are purple or water flows up hill.

We test things over and over and over again. That's evidence based reality. To believe in that and then believe just as much in God is nonsensical.
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Re: Evolution and God

Postby edy420 on April 20th, 2018, 1:45 pm 

How differently would you see the world if your eyes were infra red.
You would try your best to convince me that all dogs are bright red.

How differently would it be if you had a 4th dimensional eye.

Many autistic people have a poor sense of pain and will wash their hands in boiling water, not knowing much different from ice cold water.

There are numerous perspectives.
Yours is just one.
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Re: Evolution and God

Postby zetreque on April 20th, 2018, 1:48 pm 

Sounds to me like again you are proposing there is a sense for God just like there is a sense for sight or touch. This has nothing to do with how many senses a person has. It has to do with reality ground up framework vs imaginary concepts.
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