8% of women orgasming during breastfeeding - implications?

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8% of women orgasming during breastfeeding - implications?

Postby Mossling on October 5th, 2014, 12:33 am 

Levin, Roy J. (May 2006), "The breast/nipple/areola complex and human sexuality". Sexual & Relationship Therapy. 21 (2):237–249.
p240-241 wrote:Approximately 33 to 50% of mothers described breast feeding as an erotic experience, while some 25% expressed guilt because of the sexual excitement that they felt (von Sydow, 1999). In a few cases the arousal is strong enough to induce orgasm which causes some nursing mothers to abandon breast feeding because of the sexual stimulation (Dickinson, 1949, p. 67; Masters & Johnson, 1966, p. 162). In a questionnaire on orgasm and pregnancy published in a Dutch magazine for women, Gianotten (1988) asked ‘‘Did you experience, while breastfeeding, a sensation of sexual excitement’’, 34% (total n¼153) answered ‘‘Yes’’ and to the question ‘‘Did you experience, while breastfeeding, pleasurable contractions in the uterine region’’, 71% answered ‘‘Yes’’. Of these 153 women who had been breastfeeding who replied to the question ‘‘Did you experience, while breast feeding an orgasm (during or as the result of breastfeeding)’’, 12 (8%) answered ‘‘Yes’’. Ignorance about such normal physiological occurrences can sometimes create gross miscarriages of the law. According to Yalom (1997, p. 254), a mother in Syracuse, New York in 1992 had her two-year-old child taken away from her after admitting that she became aroused on nursing, the authorities claiming that she sexually abused the child. A judge found there was no case and after 8 months the child was returned to the custody not of her mother, but of her grandparents!

From the above information it seems likely that in Western populations, around 8% of mothers are having orgasm(s) while breastfeeding. This triggers the following questions in my mind:

1) Can the suckling child feel the woman (mother or otherwise) orgasming? (My guess is yes)
2) How old can the suckling child 'safely be' before the situation of the orgasming breastfeeder appears obviously perverse? (My guess would be when the child has some awareness of it's own sexual potential)
3) Does a mother orgasming while breastfeeding have any modicum of impact (positive or otherwise) on the child's future life no matter the age of the child?
4) Can it ever be detected that a woman seeking orgasm through breastfeeding primarily for the sexual release is acting in such a way? (It is difficult, in my mind, to ascertain this, and begs the question; does it ever happen, and if so, how often?)

Since at the very least 30% of Western women are experiencing sexual arousal during breastfeeding, it is interesting this topic is not discussed more widely in the public domain. Understandably it is kept taboo because of the alleged health advantages associated with breastfeeding vs the darker areas of sexual indulgence and perversion.
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Re: 8% of women orgasming during breastfeeding - implication

Postby Dave_Oblad on October 5th, 2014, 4:43 am 

Hi Mossling,

The problem is with our culture. It has elevated Breasts on woman to a sexual status.

For example, someone can suck on my nipples until the cows come home and I will not climax. Man Breasts have no sexual connection in our minds. And Sex is almost solely mental. For example, with no sexual physical stimulation, many men, including myself, have had a wet dream at least once. To wake up while ejaculating. Sex is in the Mind!

My buddy, raised in a strong religious household, had nudity so high on their taboo list that the mere glance of my Buddy at a Playboy Centerfold, would cause him to spontaneously ejaculate. Why? Sex is in the Mind!

So our culture has placed a high sexual bias/stigma on female breasts. So much so, that any stimulation of them may lead to orgasm, even though they are not anymore sensitive than my male Breasts/Nipples

It is totally irrational that we do this of course. I watched Spartacus on StarZ, nudity and bloodbaths galore. Now it is playing on SyFy channel. All the Blood and Gore and Dismemberment's and Evisceration's are left intact.. but all nudity and bare breasts have been blurred out. Why? Are bare Breasts so horrible? It's our irrational culture that is to blame.

It is now legal for a woman to go topless anywhere a man can, in the vast majority of the United States. But Cops still harass, without legal backup, any and most such women taking advantage of such laws. Cops are known to say: "Lady.. cover up! Children can see you!". Again, it will take awhile to undo all the damage that been done. But when topless women are commonplace and the stigma has been removed in our culture.. so will the issues described in the OP also dissipate.

IMHO...

Regards,
Dave :^)
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Re: 8% of women orgasming during breastfeeding - implication

Postby Mossling on October 5th, 2014, 5:21 am 

Hi Dave

I agree with you for the most part - traditionally many human societies had (and still have) bare-breasted women living normal human lives. What you say is supported in the paper I cited in the OP as follows:
p244-245 wrote:According to Kinsey et al. (1948), breast and nipple stimulation was linked to the level of male education, upper level males considered it natural that the ‘‘female breast should interest him, and that he should want to manipulate it, both by hand and by mouth’’ (p. 371), however, ‘‘Many lower level males rate such mouth-breast contacts as perversions, and some of them dismiss the idea with considerable disgust, as something that only a baby does.’’ In their later survey of sex in the female (Kinsey et al., 1953) they reported (p. 586) that nearly all (99%) of the better educated males manually manipulated the female breast, while 98% orally stimulated the breast during heterosexual petting or pre-coital play (Table 73, p. 100). Such activity was held to stimulate the male erotically, ‘‘but the significance for the female has probably been overestimated’’. Only 11% of their surveyed females recorded frequent use of used breast stimulation as an aid to masturbation. In the case of females stimulating the male breast they commented that ‘‘relatively few females ever try to stimulate the breasts of their male partners (whereas such behaviour is frequent in male homosexuals, p. 587). [...] The effect of nipple stimulation on the release of prolactin in non-lactating women and in men appears to vary, which may possibly be due to differences in the mental states of the subjects in the different studies. An increase in plasma prolactin has been reported in the careful study by Kolodney et al. (1972). In women subjects, both self-stimulation and stimulation by their male partners caused increases. With the men, self-stimulation of their nipples did not cause any increase in plasmaprolactin but if it was done by their wives a significant increase occurred. Interestingly the men, when asked, did not report any sexual arousal from the nipple stimulation. It thus appears that psychological factors are involved in allowing the release when females but not themselves undertook the stimulation. Amico & Finley (1986) found that only one woman out of five menstrually cycling subjects showed increase in prolactin by nipple stimulation. Another study could not confirm any increase in prolactin by nipple stimulation in non-lactating women
(Ratner et al., 1982).

However these other snippets seem to indicate that womens' breasts are more sensitive to sexual interaction and have an apparent genetic predisposition to being included in sexual activity:
After puberty the tactile sensitivity of all areas of the female breast becomes significantly greater than that of the male (Robinson & Short, 1977). [...] Initially, superficial venous engorgement is observed and then as the arousal becomes stronger there can be an increase in deep vasocongestion leading to an enlargement of up to 25% of the actual size of the breasts, first described by Dickinson (1949) and confirmed by Masters & Johnson (1966, p. 29). Women who have breast fed frequently do not show this increase in volume nor do those with large, pendulous breasts. The inner surfaces of the breasts also display a mottled, red flush called the ‘‘sex flush’’ (an erythematous maculo-papular rash spreading out from the epigastrium) in the late excitement phase (so-called Plateau phase of Masters & Johnson, 1966) which can extend over the whole breast. It is discharged on orgasm. [...] ...despite the fact that nipple/breast stimulation is a frequent characteristic of human sexual activity (Ford & Beach, 1965), especially employed by males to initiate and enhance the sexual arousal of the female, there are remarkably few studies about such activity. While sexual arousal can be activated, the induction of orgasm by breast and nipple stimulation alone is rarer. [...] ...it is clear from the recent survey of Levin & Meston (2006) that in many young men their nipples do have a sexual arousal function. Perhaps it is premature to designate them as a biological spandrel.
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Re: 8% of women orgasming during breastfeeding - implication

Postby Watson on October 5th, 2014, 10:56 am 

According to Yalom (1997, p. 254), a mother in Syracuse, New York in 1992 had her two-year-old child taken away from her after admitting that she became aroused on nursing, the authorities claiming that she sexually abused the child. A judge found there was no case and after 8 months the child was returned to the custody not of her mother, but of her grandparents!


No doubt, male authorities.
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Re: 8% of women orgasming during breastfeeding - implication

Postby Braininvat on October 5th, 2014, 11:30 am 

I'm surprised this is such a bfd, thought it was widely understood that mothers got some arousal this way - my wife told me of this when she was suckling our firstborn. The Syracuse case sounds like absurd overreaction and part of the cultural paranoia about child abuse. All our body parts are connected, and why wouldn't nature make suckling pleasurable - get over it, puritans.
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Re: 8% of women orgasming during breastfeeding - implication

Postby Watson on October 5th, 2014, 1:34 pm 

Exactly. It just makes sense it should be pleasurable so the nurturing is encouraged throughout evolution.
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Re: 8% of women orgasming during breastfeeding - implication

Postby Mossling on October 5th, 2014, 9:46 pm 

Watson » October 6th, 2014, 2:34 am wrote:Exactly. It just makes sense it should be pleasurable so the nurturing is encouraged throughout evolution.

Nobody normally orgasms from eating sugar, though. There's pleasurable and then there's pleasurable.

Some mothers continue to breastfeed children onwards towards the age of 10. If the mother is aroused during such sessions in a way which is detectable by the child (or not), do you think that has potentially dangerous repercussions? Could offspring ever think that their mothers were breastfeeding them for longer than 'normal' for reasons other than motherly care?
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Re: 8% of women orgasming during breastfeeding - implication

Postby Watson on October 5th, 2014, 10:14 pm 

But feed them chocolate?

There is the general sense, and there is the extreme sense as your example suggests.
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Re: 8% of women orgasming during breastfeeding - implication

Postby Paralith on October 5th, 2014, 11:47 pm 

I have trouble seeing why this should be an issue of great concern unless most women who do orgasm from breastfeeding actually breastfeed for longer than they would otherwise solely for this reason. Do you have any numbers on that? Because, you know, most women can also orgasm by other means which do not require having a child clamped to your chest. These other means being both more convenient and less awkward, I think the woman who thinks she accomplishes orgasm best through breastfeeding is a rare bird indeed.
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Re: 8% of women orgasming during breastfeeding - implication

Postby Mossling on October 6th, 2014, 12:01 am 

Paralith » October 6th, 2014, 12:47 pm wrote:I have trouble seeing why this should be an issue of great concern unless most women who do orgasm from breastfeeding actually breastfeed for longer than they would otherwise solely for this reason. Do you have any numbers on that? Because, you know, most women can also orgasm by other means which do not require having a child clamped to your chest. These other means being both more convenient and less awkward, I think the woman who thinks she accomplishes orgasm best through breastfeeding is a rare bird indeed.

Unfortunately there don't seem to be any studies covering that area. The orgasming breastfeeders are one group, but another group is the 'at least 30%' who experience sexual arousal. One might expect that the pleasurable sexual feelings themselves could be pursued independently of the pleasure of feeding another human, or both equally. There is plenty of space for furhter research here.

On the topic of other means and methods to indulge in sexual feelings and achieve organsm, it seems that receiving stimulation from an outside agent can make whatever fantasy more realistic than simply interacting with oneself.
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Re: 8% of women orgasming during breastfeeding - implication

Postby Paralith on October 6th, 2014, 2:12 am 

Mossling wrote:On the topic of other means and methods to indulge in sexual feelings and achieve organsm, it seems that receiving stimulation from an outside agent can make whatever fantasy more realistic than simply interacting with oneself.


Sure, for some percentage of women. Then there's the percentage of those who can orgasm significantly easier/better with such outside stimulation, the percentage of those women who do not have a husband or other sexual partner who cannot provide that stimulation, and the percentage of those women who are significantly aroused by breastfeeding, and the percentage of those women who find this extra ease of achieving orgasm as more compelling than all their other feelings of awkwardness or inappropriateness, of the pressure of their culture, of the pressure of their doctors etc. Again, I imagine this comes down to quite a tiny percentage.
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Re: 8% of women orgasming during breastfeeding - implication

Postby Mossling on October 6th, 2014, 2:50 am 

Paralith wrote:... and the percentage of those women who find this extra ease of achieving orgasm as more compelling than all their other feelings of awkwardness or inappropriateness, of the pressure of their culture, of the pressure of their doctors etc. Again, I imagine this comes down to quite a tiny percentage.

Yes, I agree it probably is a very small percentage. That's for actually reaching orgasm, however. The study stated that many women stopped breastfeeding due to the orgasm issue. There is still the ~30-50% who experience sexual feelings. It's anyone's guess how many of them 'indulge'.
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Re: 8% of women orgasming during breastfeeding - implication

Postby Paralith on October 6th, 2014, 11:42 am 

Well, that depends on what you mean by 'indulge', with the extra quotes you put around it and everything. Again, I think it's only an issue of concern if their enjoyment of the feeling is causing them to significantly change their breastfeeding behavior in ways they otherwise wouldn't, and in ways that are potentially harmful to the child or to their relationship with their child. And I find it hard to imagine that getting a little bit of a thrill while breastfeeding is enough to have that much of an impact on most women's behavior. I think most women have other sexual outlets besides being somewhat aroused by breastfeeding but nothing further, outlets that are more fully gratifying, easier, less awkward and more comfortable, and more appropriate. Certainly I'd want to see some real numbers and not just sit here and say, "well who knows how many do it!" If anything the research you've provided suggests that many women who experience this find it undesirable and put thought and effort into making it not effect their children negatively.
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Re: 8% of women orgasming during breastfeeding - implication

Postby Watson on October 6th, 2014, 12:02 pm 

I wonder what leading questions may have yielded the 33-50% response. Why a 17% spread? Are many of the results ambiguous?
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Re: 8% of women orgasming during breastfeeding - implication

Postby Mossling on October 7th, 2014, 2:30 am 

I agree with both of you. Further studies would be interesting, however difficult to get truly accurate data, I would imagine.
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Re: 8% of women orgasming during breastfeeding - implication

Postby Braininvat on October 7th, 2014, 12:41 pm 

Clearly, a more hands-on approach is needed to this sort of research.
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Re: 8% of women orgasming during breastfeeding - implication

Postby mmmniple on November 13th, 2015, 4:09 pm 

Hello to all,I am new here.(Excuse me lenguage ,i am no native)
I have just seen this thread and i decided register and enter.

I know it could seem strange but yes :women could have orgasm with nipple stimulation ( breadfasting or other ways).It should no be so strange : it is a way to create and make stronger the bounding betwen the women and her child.

The percentage probably is bigger but woman ashmed when this sensation cames and "stop it".**
(they are some womens which feel so bad than simply can not breadfeeding her child)


The huge problem is the society ,the moral.. : One matter is sex and other is sexuality.
When one read some as this text ,inmediatly link it as a sex matter where they are a child!
Please,the human are sexual being since we birth (and before : they are evidences than fetus masturbate),and whats is wrong? NOTHING.
mmm,i hope dont be badunderstanded : i am talking about biological matters ,no our way to interprete this.
Children are sexual being ,and it is ok,BUT,OF COURSE,adult must no interfere on it.

I would love explain the part "stop it" i marked after :
they are lots of way to stop this,is more : we made it unconscienstly.A example is male sexuality : we are so focus on the penis than forgot the other parts.I know it goes to sound too strange but also we,male human could have nipple orgasm.
It is true,they are evidences.Search a little and you will be surprised.The nipples are a very sensitive area,
but it seems we "forgot" to "listen" this sensations.
I can put myself as example : mine never were sensitive,for me they were no diferent to fingers,..but sudently i discover than it was true,i learn to listen this subtle sensations and they are great.
(And no,i have never a nipple orgasm but i have lots of friends able to )
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