Is there really such a thing as ghosts?

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Is there really such a thing as ghosts?

Postby ronjanec on December 7th, 2009, 1:35 pm 

I was really bored a few weeks ago and I google searched ghost videos(Yes I know, I need to get out of the house more often): Some of the videos that I watched were realy scary, but I was still able to go to sleep without the lights on.

I remember the scariest video that I watched was about a very pretty hitchhiker who was picked up by a bunch of kids who(after a few minutes) pointed to the place on the highway where she had died: After a few more seconds, she then looked into the video camera and screamed at the top of her voice, and this caused them to get into a horrible car accident where two people died. I checked out this video later on, and unfortunately it turned out to be a hoax by some kids from Portugal.

So are ALL the other videos on the internet also hoaxs? Are ALL the other ghost stories(some from our own families) that have been reported throughout the centuries also hoaxs and nonsense?

Some will of course say that this is a silly topic, but if ANY of these stories are actually true, this could actually be proof of life after death, or at least proof of the supernatural, and that is a very big deal.

I won't admit that I believe in ghosts, but to be honest, I will admit that I would be really nervous walking alone through a cemetery at three in the morning, and also very nervous about spending a night alone in a said to be haunted house.
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Re: Is there really such a thing as ghosts?

Postby Deftil on December 7th, 2009, 4:32 pm 

Depends on what you believe. I haven't seen any compelling evidence for the existence of ghosts. There's lots of people these days that "research" paranormal activity on TV shows. (see links below) They seem to be a very skittish bunch that interpret anything in the world that isn't 100% obviously explained as paranormal activity. I'd say most ghost related stuff is hoaxed, or at least greatly played up by people wanting to scare others or make money off of their fascination with the "paranormal".

http://www.syfy.com/ghosthunters/

http://www.aetv.com/paranormal-state/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paranormal_television
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Re: Is there really such a thing as ghosts?

Postby ronjanec on December 7th, 2009, 5:22 pm 

Deftil wrote:Depends on what you believe. I haven't seen any compelling evidence for the existence of ghosts. There's lots of people these days that "research" paranormal activity on TV shows. (see links below) They seem to be a very skittish bunch that interpret anything in the world that isn't 100% obviously explained as paranormal activity. I'd say most ghost related stuff is hoaxed, or at least greatly played up by people wanting to scare others or make money off of their fascination with the "paranormal".

http://www.syfy.com/ghosthunters/

http://www.aetv.com/paranormal-state/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paranormal_television


Yes, I have never seen a ghost, or seen any compelling evidence for their existence either, but I have to admit that some of those videos are really interesting to say the least. And I have a real hard time believing that EVERYONE who has said that they have seen a ghost in past centuries is either drunk, crazy, lying, or seeing things. You said that you believed that "MOST ghost related stuff is hoaxed": My point in the op was that if ANY of it was true, this is a very big deal.

Deftil, I did not know that odds and ends forum does not show up in the new activity column: Is there any way that you would consider moving this thread to the anything philosophy section?
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Re: Is there really such a thing as ghosts?

Postby Deftil on December 9th, 2009, 9:47 am 

ronjanec wrote:Yes, I have never seen a ghost, or seen any compelling evidence for their existence either, but I have to admit that some of those videos are really interesting to say the least. And I have a real hard time believing that EVERYONE who has said that they have seen a ghost in past centuries is either drunk, crazy, lying, or seeing things. You said that you believed that "MOST ghost related stuff is hoaxed": My point in the op was that if ANY of it was true, this is a very big deal.

They don't have to have been drunk, crazy, or "seeing things" though. They could just be wrong about what they experienced. Lots of people are wrong about lots of things all the time. It's been the case in the past, undoutedly is the case in the present, and will certainly be the case in the future. Just because ALL "evidence" for ghosts isn't hoaxed, doesn't mean that it is actually good evidence for ghosts. It may be non-hoaxed evidence that isn't actually logical and reliable evidence for the paranormal. It's likely ambiguous at best, and patently ridiculous at worst. I've watched some of the those ghost TV shows before, and the things they cite as evidence for paranormal activity is usually absurd. It's amazing and to me it's obvious that they're interpreting this information the way they are because of their pre-existing belief in the existence of ghosts and/ or because they know doing so will make for more exciting television. Sometimes they do come up with evidence that I don't find easily explainable by my own current knowledge, but to go from some unexplainable evidence to the conclusion that ghosts exist is an enormous leap of faith that I'm unwilling to take. We end up with some personal testimony from people who claim to have seen ghosts and a small amount of ambiguous information and nothing more. Is that enough to believe? Again, for me it isn't. I don't think ghosts exist. I could be wrong though.

I'm not sure Anything Philosophy is the right place for this thread, so I can leave it here, or try to have it moved to the Mythbusters subforum in SCF where it will be subjected to a certain degree of scientific scrutiny. Which of those 2 options would you prefer?
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Re: Is there really such a thing as ghosts?

Postby DrCloud on December 9th, 2009, 10:06 am 

Do I understand this to be a serious discussion concerning the existence of "ghosts" (meaning, presumably, the animated spirits of dead people)?

Holy crap. Please don't move this anywhere close to SCF. HPH
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Re: Is there really such a thing as ghosts?

Postby Deftil on December 9th, 2009, 10:27 am 

Well, as I understand it, this type of thing is exactly what the Mythbusters subforum is for! But, you know, I've been wrong about things before... well, once.
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Re: Is there really such a thing as ghosts?

Postby DrCloud on December 9th, 2009, 10:52 am 

Deftil wrote:...this type of thing is exactly what the Mythbusters subforum is for...


Mmm. Well, maybe we should have discussions of the physical existence of Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, the Tooth Fairy... I'm sure there are many others, too.

I suppose, ultimately, it's up to the site's owners to decide just how wacky they want things to be. They'll have to balance overall credibility with broad appeal, of course -- and that's what the History Channel and others are doing with all their wacky stuff, isn't it? HPH
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Re: Is there really such a thing as ghosts?

Postby ronjanec on December 9th, 2009, 7:25 pm 

Deftil,

If mythbusters posts shows up in the new activity postings could you please move it there? If not, you might as well just leave it here in this wasteland. Thank you.
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Re: Is there really such a thing as ghosts?

Postby ronjanec on December 9th, 2009, 8:10 pm 

DrCloud wrote:
Deftil wrote:...this type of thing is exactly what the Mythbusters subforum is for...


Mmm. Well, maybe we should have discussions of the physical existence of Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, the Tooth Fairy... I'm sure there are many others, too.

I suppose, ultimately, it's up to the site's owners to decide just how wacky they want things to be. They'll have to balance overall credibility with broad appeal, of course -- and that's what the History Channel and others are doing with all their wacky stuff, isn't it? HPH


DrCloud,

I guess some people would consider this to be a wacky subject, but I personally do not consider this subject to be in the same category as Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, and the Tooth Fairy. I personally think that it could be a very interesting subject to discuss, but maybe I am the only person who thinks this.
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Re: Is there really such a thing as ghosts?

Postby Deftil on December 9th, 2009, 8:45 pm 

The topic at hand is different from those mentioned by DrC in that people attempt to do a degree of scientific testing for paranormal activity to try to obtain empirical data to back up their beliefs. I wouldn't say any are particularly successful in proving the existence of ghosts, but some effort (by adults) is there. This obviously isn't the case with Santa Claus etc.

ronjanec, after giving it some thought, here is my judgement on the placement of this thread: As it stands now, it is best for it to stay in Odds & Ends. However, I personally think a version of it might be acceptable in the Mythbusters subforum of SCF. Kudayta is the moderator of that subforum and it's his decision whether a thread is acceptable for it or not. If you wanted to start a new thread and have him consider it acceptable, you should bring up specific bits of evidence and experimental results cited by those that test for these types of things for consideration. If that's not done, and the thread is just like this one, it's more likely to be deemed unacceptable.
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Re: Is there really such a thing as ghosts?

Postby CanadysPeak on December 9th, 2009, 9:03 pm 

DrCloud wrote:
Deftil wrote:...this type of thing is exactly what the Mythbusters subforum is for...


Mmm. Well, maybe we should have discussions of the physical existence of Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, the Tooth Fairy... I'm sure there are many others, too.

I suppose, ultimately, it's up to the site's owners to decide just how wacky they want things to be. They'll have to balance overall credibility with broad appeal, of course -- and that's what the History Channel and others are doing with all their wacky stuff, isn't it? HPH


This topic could be done in sociology (Please folks, I'm just saying could; don't really move it.) There is precedence for the use of anecdotal evidence, as in some of the work done by people like Helen Lewis of the University of Virginia and a group out of the University of Tennessee (their names escape me at the moment). It's controversial, but possibly legitimate.

But, you'd need to approach it from the other end. You could report the experiences of viewers, but it pretty much has to focus on the actual viewing and not on what they thought they might have been viewing. You have to do it almost in the same manner as BlueBook was. Of course, as I wrote that, I remembered how well that went!

And, you'd need first hand reports, not You-Tube videos. Nah, I just convinced myself this isn't the place to do ghost reports.
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Re: Is there really such a thing as ghosts?

Postby DrCloud on December 9th, 2009, 10:27 pm 

CanadysPeak wrote:Nah, I just convinced myself this isn't the place to do ghost reports.

Thank you. HPH
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Re: Is there really such a thing as ghosts?

Postby Lincoln on December 10th, 2009, 4:06 am 

CanadysPeak wrote: You have to do it almost in the same manner as BlueBook was. Of course, as I wrote that, I remembered how well that went!

Dude! You wrote parts of Project Bluebook? That makes you old! 'cuz I'm old and I wrote away for bits and pieces of it when I was in fourth grade.

I didn't follow it too much beyond that, so I'm far from an expert on the project. But the idea was cool and it certainly was yet another contribution for why I ended up a scientist. That sort of stuff can really light the imagination of a youngster....
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Re: Is there really such a thing as ghosts?

Postby ronjanec on December 10th, 2009, 10:15 am 

CanadysPeak wrote:
DrCloud wrote:
Deftil wrote:...this type of thing is exactly what the Mythbusters subforum is for...


Mmm. Well, maybe we should have discussions of the physical existence of Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, the Tooth Fairy... I'm sure there are many others, too.

I suppose, ultimately, it's up to the site's owners to decide just how wacky they want things to be. They'll have to balance overall credibility with broad appeal, of course -- and that's what the History Channel and others are doing with all their wacky stuff, isn't it? HPH


This topic could be done in sociology (Please folks, I'm just saying could; don't really move it.) There is precedence for the use of anecdotal evidence, as in some of the work done by people like Helen Lewis of the University of Virginia and a group out of the University of Tennessee (their names escape me at the moment). It's controversial, but possibly legitimate.

But, you'd need to approach it from the other end. You could report the experiences of viewers, but it pretty much has to focus on the actual viewing and not on what they thought they might have been viewing. You have to do it almost in the same manner as BlueBook was. Of course, as I wrote that, I remembered how well that went!

And, you'd need first hand reports, not You-Tube videos. Nah, I just convinced myself this isn't the place to do ghost reports.


No, your right, this isn't the place to do ghost reports. I guess this was a bad idea.
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Re: Is there really such a thing as ghosts?

Postby CanadysPeak on December 10th, 2009, 10:30 am 

Lincoln wrote:
CanadysPeak wrote: You have to do it almost in the same manner as BlueBook was. Of course, as I wrote that, I remembered how well that went!

Dude! You wrote parts of Project Bluebook? That makes you old! 'cuz I'm old and I wrote away for bits and pieces of it when I was in fourth grade.

I didn't follow it too much beyond that, so I'm far from an expert on the project. But the idea was cool and it certainly was yet another contribution for why I ended up a scientist. That sort of stuff can really light the imagination of a youngster....


Oops. Mrs. Walton would have given me that icy stare that froze the blood of many a ninth grade English student, and reminded me that I know not to use unclear pronoun references. Speaking of ghosts, the thought of her disapproval still haunts me, lo these many decades.

I liked Bluebook also (though that's not what I wrote). In the early 50s, I lived in a small mountain valley that (apparently) closely matched a potential Russian target, so the valley was used for practice bombing runs. We had flights of B47's coming over at 300 feet, and we had strange observations at night from time to time. Those observations were never explained, but they stopped when the bombing runs stopped, so I assumed they were all Air Force.
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Re: Is there really such a thing as ghosts?

Postby Lincoln on December 10th, 2009, 12:15 pm 

Ah yes. I see how I misunderstood your sentence. Sorry about that.
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Re: Is there really such a thing as ghosts?

Postby rainbow1927 on July 19th, 2010, 9:53 am 

Yes, they do exist because I have seen them and 'experienced' their presence.
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