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Gun Control. The third Way

PostPosted: September 20th, 2019, 2:36 pm
by Event Horizon
This problem in the states has proven highly vexatious for years.
After years of pondering and argument, I think I have found another way.


A 6am to 6pm public carry curfew.
Carriers to be disarmed, forcibly if necessary. The weapon would be forfeit by way of penalty.
This could already be done using local ordinances, maybe.
Allowing people to continue to hold arms at home, and allowing people to carry at night should still satisfy the 2nd amendment.

This won't stop gun crime, but should help considerably to reduce school shootings and other deaths.

Could this me made to fly?
Not a ban, a compromise.

Re: Gun Control. The third Way

PostPosted: September 20th, 2019, 4:19 pm
by TheVat
The States are a patchwork of open carry and concealed carry laws. None can really enforce against concealed carry, given the logistics that would involve. Most gun homicides happen in the home, where carry permits would be irrelevant. Most mass shootings are done by people who didn't consult their state's statutes before sneaking a gun, often a military style assault rifle, to a public location.

At this point, I'd say screw the 2nd Amendment, which was written for an 18th century pastoral society with countryside militias in mind, and has been poorly understood and interpreted since then. We aren't going to get rid of violent psychotic breaks or people who are clever at getting around laws. If we don't want people being gunned down in public, then we should ratify a new amendment to replace the 2nd, and which reserves gun ownership for soldiers and hunting lodges, as many countries do. We don't need guns to fend off our government because our government has stuff that makes AR-15s look like peashooters. Those weapons wouldn't save us from a rogue government (better educated voters might, however) that instituted martial law.

Re: Gun Control. The third Way

PostPosted: September 20th, 2019, 9:14 pm
by Dave_C
Gun control is notoriously difficult to affect in the US, I think because guns are so ingrained in the culture, legal system and economy. There are those who believe that guns are good in some way regardless of what logic is brought to bear on the topic. In fact, they will look to their peers and those who they believe are leaders in the gun community for how they should think and the masses will adopt whatever it is they are told to believe in.

People for example, often talk about suicide by gun as if these people don't matter. They will kill themselves regardless of what mechanism is available. This sets up suicide victims as people with no value. A wonderful Scientific American article was written around suicide by gun.

Won't people who are stopped from killing themselves today just find another way to complete the act later? Some number will, unfortunately. Yet most who survive do not keep trying until they succeed. Instead, studies show, the majority of survivors die a natural death many years after failing to kill themselves. The period of greatest vulnerability seems to be in the first year after an attempt, a time when treatment for those who try to end their life is critically important, experts say.

Perhaps the best evidence for the strength of this survival instinct stems from pioneering research carried out by Richard Seiden in the 1970s. Then a clinical psychologist at the University of California, Berkeley, Seiden found that more than 90 percent of the 515 people who were prevented from jumping off the Golden Gate Bridge between the year it opened in 1937 and 1971 eventually lived long enough to die of nonviolent causes. Indeed, Seiden's work spurred such a surge of scientific inquiry by other investigators who reached the same conclusion that state authorities finally agreed to install antisuicide netting underneath the famous span. ... -suicides/

Preventing suicide by gun is something that can be accomplished as outlined in this article. Ways of reducing homicides and deaths of all sorts due to guns can also be accomplished. What's required is research into effective means and the application of laws. But perhaps what's required most of all is a change in the culture and people's attitudes towards gun deaths. Beliefs are extremely difficult if not impossible things to change. There's a tremendous amount of inertia to overcome in changing beliefs whether they are beliefs about guns, beliefs about religion or beliefs about anything. There will always be a tremendous amount of resistance to changing those beliefs so laws and regulations as you mention, though possibly effective, are not really the answer. The answer has to take into consideration how to change the culture.

Re: Gun Control. The third Way

PostPosted: September 21st, 2019, 9:06 am
by Event Horizon
Thanks for such insightful comments.
A couple of arms manufactures have in the last week said they will no longer sell AR15 type weapons in America. I think colt is one.
If this shifts the existing paradigm, it may help.

No American(s) can overthrow a despotic leader on their own, whatever gun they have. There is therefore no justification to carry arms in public.
The 2nd amendment has lost its legitimacy, and I agree with brainy that the 2nd is not fit for purpose anymore.
No civilians can overthrow a government in the USA by force of arms, its just fantasy.