How come I can't sell "veganism"?

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Re: How come I can't sell "veganism"?

Postby Braininvat on July 6th, 2017, 1:54 pm 

...stinky tofu...



THERE'S the way to sell veganism! Promote dishes that begin with "stinky."

I don't digest soy too well, so my vegetarian meals have to rely on lentils, pintos, chickpeas, and such. And blessed are the cheesemakers. Free-range pasture cheese, of course. Which doesn't involve globes, if I'm understanding the nomenclature there. I also eat a cousin, once in a while. Baked, with tarragon and a hint of garlic.
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Re: How come I can't sell "veganism"?

Postby Sivad on July 7th, 2017, 2:40 pm 

Lomax » July 5th, 2017, 7:46 am wrote:
Sivad » July 5th, 2017, 7:13 am wrote:
Graeme M » June 27th, 2017, 10:42 pm wrote:Perhaps eating animals is as much a "freakish cult"? Or at least, not just a gustatory behavior, as widely believed, but also an ideological one. People seem determined to believe that "carnism" is some kind of natural order, yet as we evolve culturally and socially, there may be other ways to evaluate that behaviour...


For most people it's definitely pathological. I went vegan for one year just as a discipline, not for any ethical concerns, and when I would tell people what I was doing they would seem to get hostile and defensive for some reason, it was bizarre. That made it clear to me that we are still animals, we like dominating things. A big part of hunting, farming, slaughtering, tearing into things is that it makes us feel secure in our place in the great chain of being. Maybe somewhere in the collective unconscious we're still holding on to the time when we were constantly stalked and killed by predators, when nature was the enemy and we were at its mercy. Now the tables are turned and we're gonna fully lord it over on our vanquished enemy. It's not just eating meat, we're gonna breed out of control, we're gonna pollute and defile this thing that was so vicious to us for so long. We're gonna make it our bitch. It's not just primitive, it's primal belligerence. Who's your daddy?

I think you're on to something. There's an obvious carnal instinct in us, and I think that helps explain the appeal of faux-meat to vegetarians. I found I was eating more pizza when I turned vegetarian, and it was not for the taste but the texture of the mozzarella as it hardened. I don't think we should be ashamed of our vicious impulses; I think we should just learn to harness them. I wouldn't wish for a nation of pacifists. But it takes strength and moxy to make a sacrifice - which is what veganism is - and we ought not to keep associating it with effeteness, cowardice, and epicene pallor. I think good could be done to the animal rights movement that way.


Placing emphasis on the strength displayed through restraint and discipline would be effective white propaganda. And if over-consumption is in part driven by a subconscious insecurity about our place in the scheme of things then it would also be helpful to remind people that we only were able to attain our position due to forethought and planning, and that all plans require self control and delayed gratification. We're going to have to start thinking in these terms if we want to maintain our place, and especially if we wan to advance beyond it.
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Re: How come I can't sell "veganism"?

Postby Graeme M on July 19th, 2017, 6:02 pm 

I wonder... People tend to be less keen on things that require self-control. Many seem to equate that with loss of pleasure or fun. I often hear people say that life would be boring if we all just can't have fun. I think our society has placed undue emphasis on enjoying life or having pleasure. I don't mean that we shouldn't enjoy ourselves, rather that to support a huge consumer driven economy it is necessary to convince people that enjoyment lies in consumption.

Athena » July 5th, 2017, 11:58 am wrote:Graeme, potatoes are not good for diabetics. They are too many carbs which turn into high blood sugar.

Your explanation of vitamin B is nice, but what does it have to do with old age and excessive gas because what is eaten is not digesting well? I love all the gas causing foods and wouldn't mind eating them all the time. I was almost vegetarian, but the digestion and gas and pain problem are not tolerable. Also, I was experiencing fog brain and that has stopped since returning to eating meat.


Athena, potato is just an example. My point is protein is easily accessible in most plant foods and many are indeed "complete" proteins.

B12 deficiency can occur for a variety of reasons, but inadequate intrinsic factor (an enzyme in the stomach) is a typical cause in older people. Health authorities think that people over 50 probably should supplement B12 even if they aren't vegan.
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Re: How come I can't sell "veganism"?

Postby Serpent on July 19th, 2017, 7:37 pm 

Graeme M » July 19th, 2017, 5:02 pm wrote:I wonder... People tend to be less keen on things that require self-control. Many seem to equate that with loss of pleasure or fun. I often hear people say that life would be boring if we all just can't have fun. I think our society has placed undue emphasis on enjoying life or having pleasure. I don't mean that we shouldn't enjoy ourselves, rather that to support a huge consumer driven economy it is necessary to convince people that enjoyment lies in consumption.

We have expensive "fun" instead of free happiness. I know that sounds preachy, but there is a big hole in our psyche where autonomy used to be. Participatory sports and games, singing and dancing used to give people pleasure in the company of their fellow humans; spectator sports and dances, however professionally slick, don't fill the same need, so we fill it with hot dogs and popcorn and beer, while our butts grow wider - and then we spend more money on slimming products and equipment.
Decorating our homes and possessions used to provide a creative outlet that going to an art gallery or placing an order at Pottery Barn just doesn't - and you have to keep buying new stuff to decorate with as the old stuff goes out of fashion.
Going from participants to consumers of leisure activity left the same kind of void as going from independent trades and crafts to factory employees.

I'm not saying that outstanding excellence in any endeavour should not be enjoyed and appreciated by an audience - just that its existence shouldn't keep the rest of us from doing all those things, at whatever level we can.

Making anything from scratch is satisfying. Providing for ourselves, building and repairing our shelter, wearing apparel we have created, that's completely unique and original, makes us happy in a way that mass-produced consumer goods can't.
Growing our own food can be frustrating and time-consuming, but there are few pleasures as profound as tasting a dish we have sown, tended, harvested and prepared ourselves. Shopping locally, at open air markets or farms, is almost as good - it's an adventure and regular contact with others of our kind.
I'm very glad to see a trend toward families cooking together from fresh ingredients.....

but I saw a tv commercial the other night, advertising food boxes, with a recipe and all the needfuls for a family meal, delivered to your home. If there is an offer of "$30 off the first order", how expensive do they have to be? Damn if the consumer-monster hasn't already glommed onto another good thing!
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