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edy420 » Thu Aug 04, 2016 1:03 pm wrote:The difference is, Norway prisoners are treated like human beings.
Their cells are similar to a nice motel room.
American prisoners are treated like animals and their cells are more like dungeons.
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Serpent » August 5th, 2016, 2:51 am wrote:Extreme sanction? And in some cases, years of incarceration and torture without arraignment or trial.
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wolfhnd » August 4th, 2016, 7:12 pm wrote:The best thing we can do to reform the prison system is to reduce the number of prisoners. The best way to reduce the number of prisoners is to restore the two parent family.
http://www.theatlantic.com/sexes/archiv ... me/265860/
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Braininvat » Fri Aug 05, 2016 1:54 pm wrote:wolfhnd » August 4th, 2016, 7:12 pm wrote:The best thing we can do to reform the prison system is to reduce the number of prisoners. The best way to reduce the number of prisoners is to restore the two parent family.
http://www.theatlantic.com/sexes/archiv ... me/265860/
or focus on non-incarceration penalties for nonviolent crime. Imprisonment should only be a response to threat of bodily harm to others. And that shift would restore a large number of 2 parent households right there. Also, separate vice from crime, treat debilitating vices as illness, let social consequences deal with the rest. Also, end private prison contracts with states, remove corporate profit from the equation. Finally, end solitary confinement, which is cruel and counterproductive, if one is supposedly trying to rehab an antisocial person.
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wolfhnd » August 5th, 2016, 3:10 pm wrote:We have a Volunteer military with an extraordinary low death rate, drug's are illegal, and the vast majority of people in prison are not there because they stole a loaf of bread.
wolfhnd » August 5th, 2016, 3:10 pm wrote:The foundation of any republic is a self discipline population
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Lomax » Fri Aug 05, 2016 2:34 pm wrote:wolfhnd » August 5th, 2016, 3:10 pm wrote:We have a Volunteer military with an extraordinary low death rate, drug's are illegal, and the vast majority of people in prison are not there because they stole a loaf of bread.
Most of them didn't steal anything at all. Nearly half are inside for drug "offenses", and a further tenth are inside for migration. Consequently the US has the highest incarceration rate in the world as well as the largest prison population in absolute numbers.wolfhnd » August 5th, 2016, 3:10 pm wrote:The foundation of any republic is a self discipline population
Well then I guess the US defies gravity. Clearly the population is not self-disciplined.
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Serpent » Fri Aug 05, 2016 10:01 pm wrote:Would this be an opportune moment to mention selective enforcement, arrest, conviction and sentencing?
Really, the main question should not be "Who is to blame?" - a common American preoccupation, I've noticed - but:
Is it working?
How can we tell whether it's working, unless we know what it's supposed to do?
OK. What's it supposed to do?
Well, then, could we make it do that any better?
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edy420 » August 4th, 2016, 2:03 pm wrote:Criminals exist.
They are a part of every society and always will be.
But what we do with them, reflects on the members of that society.
Norway has the lowest reofending rates in the world.
Meaning they are successful at rehabilitating their criminals and releasing them back into the community.
They have an incarceration rate of 75 people per 100,000.
America locks away 707 people out of 100,000.
The difference is, Norway prisoners are treated like human beings.
Their cells are similar to a nice motel room.
American prisoners are treated like animals and their cells are more like dungeons.
Rehabilitation programs are very different too.
I think it's more important to help the brothers, who struggle to fit I to society.
This is why American justice is simply revenge, immoral and unjust.
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Serpent » August 5th, 2016, 6:28 pm wrote:Nononono No!
Don't define the objectives of reform.
Define the objectives of the justice system.
How for-profit prison corporations shape immigrant detention and ...
http://www.afsc.org/.../how-profit-pris ... orations...
American Friends Service Committee
How for-profit prison corporations shape immigrant detention and ... percent of the world's prisoners.3 Between 1970 and 2009, as a result of the “war on drugs,” ...
Private Prisons | American Civil Liberties Union
https://www.aclu.org/issues/mass.../private-prisons
American Civil Liberties Union
The War on Drugs · Racial Disparities in Criminal Justice · Privatization of ... ACLU: DOJ Private-Prison Decision Signals End to Texas' Immigrant Prisons.
[PDF]Too Good to be True – Private Prisons - The Sentencing Project
sentencingproject.org/.../Too-Good-to-be-True-Private-Prisons-in-...
Sentencing Project
The number of federal prisoners held in private prisons rose from. 3,828 to ... privatization. The War on Drugs and harsher sentencing policies, including ... detain undocumented immigrants.8 These forms of privatization “on the 'soft' end.
Just How Much The War On Drugs Impacts Our Overcrowded Prisons ...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/.../war-o ... raphic_n...
The Huffington Post
Mar 10, 2014 - America's prisons are dangerously overcrowded, and the war on drugs is ... crimes — drugs and immigration — make up over 60 percent of the U.S. ... For Child Abuse After Alleged Incident On Private Plane (UPDATED) ...
The multibillion-dollar immigrant detention industry | Street Roots
news.streetroots.org/2016/07/21/multibillion-dollar-immigrant-detention-industry
Jul 21, 2016 - Private prisons have become the sole focus of Enlace's campaign efforts. Enlace ... what they call the “war on immigrants” to the war on drugs.
Related: How private prisons are profiting from locking up US immigrants
https://news.vice.com/.../how-private-p ... -up-us-i...
Vice
Oct 6, 2015 - How Private Prisons Are Profiting From Locking Up US Immigrants ..... only jumped on the band wagon of the War on Drugs to fund his little war ...
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Lomax » August 5th, 2016, 12:25 pm wrote:Your responses were well-written and well-informed. It's good to see you concede the perversion of the justice system imposed by the "war on drugs", although it ought to be noted that the justice system itself is not free of responsibility. It's up to those within the system, regardless of the national legislation to which they are beholden, to prioritise and pursue as they see fit. To take an acute example from my own socialist utopia, the Durham Police and Crime Commissioner Ron Hogg recently made a much-publicised announcement that his department would not be making an effort to prosecute cannabis possession anymore (despite the fact that it is still a crime here). The US system's obsession with recreational drug use reflected in its 20% figure (on which I stand corrected) seems somewhat absurd to me.
But there are further things I don't understand. Why does the 4-place gap on the world rankings - a list of more than 200 - of per capita income render Norway and the US an inappropriate comparison? That's almost as close on the list as we can possibly ask. Why is the Left's focus on collective identity harmful - in the long run - if precisely the advantage that Norway has over the US is its collectivist philosophy? To put your statements together it would seem you urge a reinforcement of exactly the outgroup hostility you believe mires the US in violence and incarceration.
Here's why your country needs to stop denying that it already lays enough stress on its criminality problem, and needs to start focusing on prison reform. The US Department of Justice itself finds that its stricter practices increase recidivism rates. The justice system, with its absurd mix of pot smokers, Mexicans and murderers, its flippant attitude to its own extreme rape culture, and its cruel and unusual punishments which put it in bed with its counterparts in Iran and Saudi Arabia, manufactures criminals.
Now the reason I kicked off with the issue of the slaughter of children is this: what better evidence can there be that the system is designed for revenge, rather than pragmatism, than that it convicts and then puts down offenders who have not even - by the principles established in the nation's own body of law - finished developing into their full selves yet?
World Health Organization Ranking; The World’s Health Systems
1 France
2 Italy
3 San Marino
4 Andorra
5 Malta
6 Singapore
7 Spain
8 Oman
9 Austria
10 Japan
11 Norway
12 Portugal
13 Monaco
14 Greece
15 Iceland
16 Luxembourg
17 Netherlands
18 United Kingdom
19 Ireland
20 Switzerland
21 Belgium
22 Colombia
23 Sweden
24 Cyprus
25 Germany
26 Saudi Arabia
27 United Arab Emirates
28 Israel
29 Morocco
30 Canada
31 Finland
32 Australia
33 Chile
34 Denmark
35 Dominica
36 Costa Rica
37 USA
38 Slovenia
39 Cuba
40 Brunei
http://thepatientfactor.com/canadian-he ... h-systems/
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Serpent » Fri Sep 23, 2016 4:33 pm wrote:So, have we decided?
What is the purpose of the criminal justice system?
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Serpent » Fri Sep 23, 2016 5:02 pm wrote:Whichever. Just so you're clear on what you are hoping to accomplish.
Only then can you begin to formulate a plan.
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