Stephen Meyer and the status of Intelligent Design

Theology, Religious Studies, religion, god, faith and other topics of a spiritual nature.

Re: Stephen Meyer and the status of Intelligent Design

Postby davidm on December 14th, 2019, 4:32 pm 

ok..thanks for the exclamation-point-laced sarcastic tirade.


I don’t think what I wrote was a tirade at all, and certainly not “laced” with exclamation points.

None of the scientists present on the right-hand side table made any of the "duh anyone can see that!"-type of points you made.


I don’t think I made any such points. I pointed out that that there did not seem to be anything new or interesting in a six-year-old video. From what I viewed, it’s a rehash of the same old stuff going back to Darwin’s Black Box from the 90s. That is why I asked you whether there was anything new in it that would justify my, or anyone, viewing this for an hour (and this is only one part of a multi-part series).

Instead this particular group was unanimous on the topic of why Intelligent Design is never published. They did not throw their hands up and get combative and claim "Cuz it's stoopid”.


Where, in my post above, did I say that these scientists did say that, or should say that? It is not even what I said. If you read my “But Is It Science?” thread, I argued that ID should not be ruled out tout court as science, and I disagreed with the Kitzmiller decision that did just that — a de jure finding, not a de facto one.

As to the rest … I don’t know. Sounds like you are agreeing with me about what I might perceive as the motive of ID, as exemplified by the Wedge document. ~shrug~ In any case, not sure why you are attacking my post, but suit yourself. ~shrug~ again.

And yeah, they are trying to overturn all evolutionary theory and substitute religion ... did I disagree? Again, Wedge document.
davidm
Member
 
Posts: 694
Joined: 05 Feb 2011


Re: Stephen Meyer and the status of Intelligent Design

Postby hyksos on December 16th, 2019, 5:06 pm 


it’s a rehash of the same old stuff going back to Darwin’s Black Box from the 90s. That is why I asked you whether there was anything new in it that would justify my, or anyone, viewing this for an hour (and this is only one part of a multi-part series).

It wouldn't hurt you to know about the up-and-coming rising star, Stephen Meyer. This will help you navigate anyone else you encounter later on. It's good to know how the various people fit together in a larger ID puzzle with their various books and Discovery Institutes and "thinktanks".

The other new thing is what the scientists said about why or why not ID is published in respected journals. At least these guys said that

"There is no scientific interest in it."

While, on its face, that seems like a convenient excuse to censor and silence, one of the scientists present explained in lawyerly detail how it could rise to interest. (give the When-and-where)

Regarding your demand for JUSTIFICATION for spending an hour watching this video, let me explain its importance. The accusation here is that scientists are secular-minded ideologues who are using their power over publishing to maliciously silence, censor, and deny Intelligent Design , on the perverse motive of ideology.

I'm not meaning to attack you by any means here, or start a flame war , but it is certainly plausible that someone could take what you have so-far written in this thread and interpret it as ideology. I largely agree with you points -- don't get me wrong -- but we have to tread extra-carefuly around this subject, because the creationists have lain a trap for us. The removal of this topic from schools and published journals has to be shown to be innocently applied for methodological reasons... otherwise we "come across as" atheist ideologues out to promulgate our philosophy by fiat. Doing that would play right into their hands.
User avatar
hyksos
Active Member
 
Posts: 1734
Joined: 28 Nov 2014


Re: Stephen Meyer and the status of Intelligent Design

Postby davidm on December 17th, 2019, 11:32 am 

hyksos » December 16th, 2019, 3:06 pm wrote:It wouldn't hurt you to know about the up-and-coming rising star, Stephen Meyer. This will help you navigate anyone else you encounter later on. It's good to know how the various people fit together in a larger ID puzzle with their various books and Discovery Institutes and "thinktanks".


But, Hyksos, again, this video is six years old. By the time it was published on YouTube, Meyer had already written at least two books attacking evoution and promoting ID. I’m very familiar with Meyer, and of course his stuff is the same old yada yada: cell too complex to have evolved, Cambrian explosion, and all the standard long-debunked ID abracadabra. He isn’t “up and coming” — he is old hat, by now. And he has never offered anything novel to support ID or attack evolution.
davidm
Member
 
Posts: 694
Joined: 05 Feb 2011


Re: Stephen Meyer and the status of Intelligent Design

Postby davidm on December 17th, 2019, 11:51 am 

I should add that Meyer was co-author of a paper, "Teaching the Controversy: Darwinism, Design and the Public School Science Curriculum,” which was published in 1999. Whatever else this guy is, he is not “up and coming.”
davidm
Member
 
Posts: 694
Joined: 05 Feb 2011


Re: Stephen Meyer and the status of Intelligent Design

Postby hyksos on December 19th, 2019, 1:46 pm 

I’m very familiar with Meyer,

Aha. Okay.

I'm sorry about the miscommunication. I apologize for my confusion.
User avatar
hyksos
Active Member
 
Posts: 1734
Joined: 28 Nov 2014


Previous

Return to Religion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests