Forbidden Archaeology

Discussions unearthing human history including cultural anthropology, linguistics, etc.

Forbidden Archaeology

Postby Eye4Knowledge on June 25th, 2011, 12:42 am 

Sorry if this subject has already been discussed here, but I am new and did not see anything on the topic in recent history.

Forbidden Archaeology is basically the term for things found that do not fit the current popular view of history; therefore are buried (excuse the pun) from the public.

Forbidden Archaeology & Human Devolution are both books by Michael A. Cremo dealing with the topic of above mentioned "Forbidden" archaeological finds, and a theory in Human devolution rather than evolution.

Has anyone read any of these works, or have an opinion on "Forbidden Archeology"?

Personally, from what I have seen and read, I find the findings very interesting and hard to just brush off.

As far as Human devolution...Well maybe morally! But as romantic as the theory sounded it was very speculative . IMHO

Here is some of what I am talking about: http://www.mcremo.com/doors.htm


Link to Michael A. Cremo site
http://www.mcremo.com/
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Re: Forbidden Archaeology

Postby CanadysPeak on June 25th, 2011, 7:30 am 

Eye4Knowledge wrote:Sorry if this subject has already been discussed here, but I am new and did not see anything on the topic in recent history.

Forbidden Archaeology is basically the term for things found that do not fit the current popular view of history; therefore are buried (excuse the pun) from the public.

Forbidden Archaeology & Human Devolution are both books by Michael A. Cremo dealing with the topic of above mentioned "Forbidden" archaeological finds, and a theory in Human devolution rather than evolution.

Has anyone read any of these works, or have an opinion on "Forbidden Archeology"?

Personally, from what I have seen and read, I find the findings very interesting and hard to just brush off.

As far as Human devolution...Well maybe morally! But as romantic as the theory sounded it was very speculative . IMHO

Here is some of what I am talking about: http://www.mcremo.com/doors.htm


Link to Michael A. Cremo site
http://www.mcremo.com/


I haven't searched either, but I doubt you'll find much on here disproving evolution. It's sort of generally been accepted as being sort of, like, true.
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Re: Forbidden Archaeology

Postby BelleS on June 25th, 2011, 7:38 am 

I haven't read either book you mention but I'm aware of Cremo's creationist views and the view mainstream palaeontologists/anthropologists have of his work.

I ran my eye quickly over his site and would venture to suggest that a discussion of his views - if anyone is interested in such a thing - would best be done in either the alternative theory forum or in the philosophy forums.

With regard to 'devolution': the concept assumes that evolution is a progression from one state to a more complex or 'advanced' state rather than the natural selection of adaptations that best suit the current environment. Loss of a feature, with the subsequent 'return' of the organism to a previous state, can occur if the feature is costly to maintain and is no better/worse suited to the environment than the featureless state. The same is true of a change in a feature to a state that is considered less advanced by those who believe there is a hierarchy of function or structure.
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Re: Forbidden Archaeology

Postby Forest_Dump on June 25th, 2011, 8:29 am 

Sadly, not uncommon stuff at all. I read through one section that was supposed to be about artifacts of various types recovered from gravels by gold miners in the 19th century. There were some illustrated that do appear to be genuine native artifacts. But for some reason, these guys are just throwing out fantastic dates without any supporting evidence. For example, the gravels would be of various ages depending on the age of the parent rock they came from. Glacial ice, as well as more recent freeze-thaw cycles, rain and water erosion, etc., etc., would have broken it free as it still does break up very old rock (which can include gold too of course). And then for any number of reasons, an avalanche buries some poor natives and their artifacts. No data or evidence is offered to support any estimate of the date of when this might have happened. Again avalanches still happen.

This is really first year stuff. You can't date a deposit on the basis of the date of its matrix. You can only say that the deposit dates later. I could drop a billion year old rock on your foot - that doesn't mean this event happened a billion years ago.

The stuff I saw was very amateurish and consisted of flash but no substance. If you find something a bit better presented, please just give the key details and we will see if anything of interest is in it but this is looking to me like a standard shill to get you to buy a book under the guise of conspiracy theories.
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Re: Forbidden Archaeology

Postby Eye4Knowledge on June 26th, 2011, 6:55 am 

Forest_Dump wrote:Sadly, not uncommon stuff at all. I read through one section that was supposed to be about artifacts of various types recovered from gravels by gold miners in the 19th century. There were some illustrated that do appear to be genuine native artifacts. But for some reason, these guys are just throwing out fantastic dates without any supporting evidence. For example, the gravels would be of various ages depending on the age of the parent rock they came from. Glacial ice, as well as more recent freeze-thaw cycles, rain and water erosion, etc., etc., would have broken it free as it still does break up very old rock (which can include gold too of course). And then for any number of reasons, an avalanche buries some poor natives and their artifacts. No data or evidence is offered to support any estimate of the date of when this might have happened. Again avalanches still happen.

This is really first year stuff. You can't date a deposit on the basis of the date of its matrix. You can only say that the deposit dates later. I could drop a billion year old rock on your foot - that doesn't mean this event happened a billion years ago.

The stuff I saw was very amateurish and consisted of flash but no substance. If you find something a bit better presented, please just give the key details and we will see if anything of interest is in it but this is looking to me like a standard shill to get you to buy a book under the guise of conspiracy theories.


A few things mentioned in the book are:

East Africa- discovered footprints in volcanic ash deposits over 3.6 million years old.

Shell w/ drawing of human face said to be over 2 million years old found by geologist H Stopes (1881)

Also, I believe the mine shaft findings were under layers of "undisturbed" lava..

The side links at the link below have more: Ancient Skulls and Bones and Anomalous Artifacts.
http://www.forbiddenarcheology.com/
Eye4Knowledge
 


Re: Forbidden Archaeology

Postby Forest_Dump on June 26th, 2011, 7:58 am 

Eye4Knowledge wrote:East Africa- discovered footprints in volcanic ash deposits over 3.6 million years old.


Okay, these would be the Laetoli foot prints. No problem there. But the rest would require better documentation, etc. For example, if the account of the lava is correct, we still don't know when the lava flowed. Volcanoes still go off so when did this one? I don't know anything about this shell with the engraving. How was it dated?

To be honest, I have no intention chasing down these kinds of things. They pop up all the time like weeds and they always end up being some crack pot wanting attention (and your money). If you want to learn about archaeology, I encourage it strongly and there are lots of good books in your local library or book store. No need to get sucked into these conspiracy theory things when there are lots of real "mysteries" that you can learn and even help solve if there is solid volunteer work going on, which is often the case. Just look for someone doing and hopefully teaching careful meticulous field work.
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Re: Forbidden Archaeology

Postby Eye4Knowledge on June 26th, 2011, 4:39 pm 

Forest_Dump wrote:
Eye4Knowledge wrote:East Africa- discovered footprints in volcanic ash deposits over 3.6 million years old.


Okay, these would be the Laetoli foot prints. No problem there. But the rest would require better documentation, etc. For example, if the account of the lava is correct, we still don't know when the lava flowed. Volcanoes still go off so when did this one? I don't know anything about this shell with the engraving. How was it dated?

To be honest, I have no intention chasing down these kinds of things. They pop up all the time like weeds and they always end up being some crack pot wanting attention (and your money). If you want to learn about archaeology, I encourage it strongly and there are lots of good books in your local library or book store. No need to get sucked into these conspiracy theory things when there are lots of real "mysteries" that you can learn and even help solve if there is solid volunteer work going on, which is often the case. Just look for someone doing and hopefully teaching careful meticulous field work.


Agreed with what you are saying about crack-pots and Archeology... BUT, with that said, I see examining every claim made as worthwhile. You never know when someone's crazy claims turn out to be true..i.e all of scientific history.
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Re: Forbidden Archaeology

Postby CanadysPeak on June 26th, 2011, 7:40 pm 

Eye4Knowledge wrote:
Forest_Dump wrote:
Eye4Knowledge wrote:East Africa- discovered footprints in volcanic ash deposits over 3.6 million years old.


Okay, these would be the Laetoli foot prints. No problem there. But the rest would require better documentation, etc. For example, if the account of the lava is correct, we still don't know when the lava flowed. Volcanoes still go off so when did this one? I don't know anything about this shell with the engraving. How was it dated?

To be honest, I have no intention chasing down these kinds of things. They pop up all the time like weeds and they always end up being some crack pot wanting attention (and your money). If you want to learn about archaeology, I encourage it strongly and there are lots of good books in your local library or book store. No need to get sucked into these conspiracy theory things when there are lots of real "mysteries" that you can learn and even help solve if there is solid volunteer work going on, which is often the case. Just look for someone doing and hopefully teaching careful meticulous field work.


You just gotta listen to Cheech and Chong's bit on dog scat.

Agreed with what you are saying about crack-pots and Archeology... BUT, with that said, I see examining every claim made as worthwhile. You never know when someone's crazy claims turn out to be true..i.e all of scientific history.
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Re: Forbidden Archaeology

Postby Lincoln on June 28th, 2011, 11:18 pm 

Eye4Knowledge wrote:Agreed with what you are saying about crack-pots and Archeology... BUT, with that said, I see examining every claim made as worthwhile. You never know when someone's crazy claims turn out to be true..i.e all of scientific history.

This is true...but only to a point.

The problem with crackpots is that you kill a theory and it pops up again later, with a new person asking to "give it a fair chance." To get out of the crackpot side, there used to be an idea called Spontaneous Generation to explain the creation of creatures. Lavoisier killed that idea dead, dead, dead. There is no reason to kill it again.

That's one of the key differences between crackpots and scientists. I have dozens of idiotic ideas every day, most of which are killed and forgotten by tea time. Crackpots refuse to let their ideas die. The ideas are more important to them than truth.
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