Pangaea will return

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Pangaea will return

Postby vivian maxine on August 5th, 2016, 9:40 am 

Most of this we know but there are some interesting facts about why the continental plates drift and their relation to the magnetic poles - especially the divide in the Atlantic Ocean. From BBC.

http://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20160729 ... -continent
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Re: Pangaea will return

Postby Watson on August 5th, 2016, 1:43 pm 

It makes sense that the continents appear to fit together, since the are the broken pieces of a larger mass. It doesn't necessarily follow they will drift back together. With the mid ocean ridge formations, it is likely they won't fit back together, even if the direction of drift is reversed.
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Re: Pangaea will return

Postby Eclogite on August 5th, 2016, 1:58 pm 

Watson » Fri Aug 05, 2016 5:43 pm wrote:It makes sense that the continents appear to fit together, since the are the broken pieces of a larger mass. It doesn't necessarily follow they will drift back together. With the mid ocean ridge formations, it is likely they won't fit back together, even if the direction of drift is reversed.
They do not have to fit together as a coherent mass. There can be lots of "sticking out bits", just as there are on all of today's continents. The point is that they will all be contiguous. (And no one is suggesting that there would be wide scale reversal of plate motion.)

If you google Wilson cycle you should find further relevant material on the concept.
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Re: Pangaea will return

Postby Watson on August 5th, 2016, 2:11 pm 

The video seemed to be suggesting the pieces all drifting back together. It reminded me of the continental formations running in reverse.
Last edited by Watson on August 5th, 2016, 2:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Pangaea will return

Postby vivian maxine on August 5th, 2016, 2:27 pm 

"Back together" in what way? It is not a reversal, I think.

"Fifty million years from now, Australia will be in collision with southeast Asia to a much larger degree," he says. Africa will also be pushing right up against southern Europe, while the Atlantic will be a far wider ocean than it is today."
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Re: Pangaea will return

Postby Watson on August 5th, 2016, 2:45 pm 

Yes that is what the text says, but the animation actually shows the Atlantic widening slightly, before it shrinks to almost nothing. Seems like a few words to justify a catchy title and attach it to an unrelated story.
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Re: Pangaea will return

Postby vivian maxine on August 5th, 2016, 3:14 pm 

Watson » August 5th, 2016, 1:45 pm wrote:Yes that is what the text says, but the animation actually shows the Atlantic widening slightly, before it shrinks to almost nothing. Seems like a few words to justify a catchy title and attach it to an unrelated story.


I agree, Watson. That is what's confusing about the whole article. And it does show the Americas fitting up against Europe as before. So, what is really moving? Eurasia, Africa and Australia toward the Americas and the Americas "sitting" still or then being pushed westward? Maybe an optical illusion on the video? If that is it, those continents, having become one will be crossing the mid-Atlantic ridge. No?

All right. We won't be here to worry abut it. Who knows? Maybe New Madrid will finish its failed split and half our continent go one way, the other half the other way. :-)
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Re: Pangaea will return

Postby bangstrom on August 8th, 2016, 4:21 am 

vivian maxine » August 5th, 2016, 2:14 pm wrote:
All right. We won't be here to worry abut it. Who knows? Maybe New Madrid will finish its failed split and half our continent go one way, the other half the other way. :-)


New Madrid just gave another little push in that direction.
http://fox2now.com/2016/08/07/magnitude ... -missouri/

Inexplicably, the continents fit together on the Pacific side as well as the Atlantic giving rise to speculation of an even more bizarre set of events.
https://search.yahoo.com/yhs/search?hsp ... ng~firefox

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kL7qDeI05U
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Re: Pangaea will return

Postby vivian maxine on August 8th, 2016, 9:19 am 

bangstrom » August 8th, 2016, 3:21 am wrote:
vivian maxine » August 5th, 2016, 2:14 pm wrote:
All right. We won't be here to worry abut it. Who knows? Maybe New Madrid will finish its failed split and half our continent go one way, the other half the other way. :-)


New Madrid just gave another little push in that direction.
http://fox2now.com/2016/08/07/magnitude ... -missouri/

Inexplicably, the continents fit together on the Pacific side as well as the Atlantic giving rise to speculation of an even more bizarre set of events.
https://search.yahoo.com/yhs/search?hsp ... ng~firefox

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kL7qDeI05U


Thank you, bangstrom, for the news update. Apparently that one didn't rattle very far. No teacups broken up my way.
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Re: Pangaea will return

Postby Watson on August 8th, 2016, 12:19 pm 

Interesting, but where did the extra 20% mass of the earth come from? And go to, if there was a bigger/smaller cycle?
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Re: Pangaea will return

Postby vivian maxine on August 8th, 2016, 1:26 pm 

Watson » August 8th, 2016, 11:19 am wrote:Interesting, but where did the extra 20% mass of the earth come from? And go to, if there was a bigger/smaller cycle?


The wider Atlantic? The Pacific would have to be getting smaller, if my imagination is working right. And didn't the article say it would disappear? Or did it? What I am seeing is partly what the page says and what my logic tells me must be happening. Australia is moving toward the Asian Continent. There will be pressure there- westward pressure. Then Africa is also putting pressure on Europe. In what direction, I cannot fathom. I'd think northward but that starts questions about the Arctic or near Arctic. Then, don't forget that India is still slipping either under or over the Asian plate.

North America? If the article is right, it can't be moving toward Europe. So, (my imagination) it is also drifting westward while Eurasia drifts toward it at a faster speed. Has to be faster for all of that to finally catch up with Asia. The video didn't show that last part. If the Atlantic is to grow wider and the Pacific disappear, there is no other way.

I'd say maybe Asia was drifting toward North America but that doesn't leave Australia on the border as the video shows it. Still, it's a possibility, maybe?

Now you and a dozen other people can punch holes in all that but it's the only possibility I can see if we are to reconcile the words and the little bit of video. There really is something very wrong there. I keep coming back to the statement that the Atlantic is getting wider. And that I've heard for year. Not a new idea at all.

Any ideas? Viv
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Re: Pangaea will return

Postby vivian maxine on August 8th, 2016, 1:29 pm 

Watson » August 8th, 2016, 11:19 am wrote:Interesting, but where did the extra 20% mass of the earth come from? And go to, if there was a bigger/smaller cycle?


Sorry, I misread your question. Extra mass of land? Upward thrust where plates are pushing?

And I forgot the Antarctic is moving up to Asia also. I forgot that.

Enough from me. Your turn.
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Re: Pangaea will return

Postby Watson on August 8th, 2016, 1:49 pm 

I think you are mixing the two ideas. The first being a planet were the continents are moving around toward or away from each other. And the second proposal where by the continents all fit together, if the sphere of the planet was 80% of the present size, and that it has grown by this newer 20% in spherical size. That was my question, where did the extra 20% mass come from?
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Re: Pangaea will return

Postby vivian maxine on August 8th, 2016, 2:22 pm 

Watson » August 8th, 2016, 12:49 pm wrote:I think you are mixing the two ideas. The first being a planet were the continents are moving around toward or away from each other. And the second proposal where by the continents all fit together, if the sphere of the planet was 80% of the present size, and that it has grown by this newer 20% in spherical size. That was my question, where did the extra 20% mass come from?


Oh, you meant the entire planet? Oops. Sorry about that. I thought you just meant the land mass. Asap, I'll go back and re-read.
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Re: Pangaea will return

Postby Watson on August 8th, 2016, 4:12 pm 

I was looking more at the several links bangstrom provided, looking for some indication why/how the earth grew by the apparent 20%. The one that got me thinking was http://www.dinox.org/expandingearth.html
It doesn't have an answer, but does offer some thoughts on the subject, which reminded me of my ideas from many years back. Back when things were written on paper, with a pencil.
The jist of it is, the Universe is expanding at the most fundamental level, such that we don't see it directly. The world we see and may measure expands in step with the Universe and what we measure over time is constant.
It was puzzling to me back then that a sphere like the earth would expanded away from the center in both/all directions, so the noticeable expansion would be slightly ahead of the over all Universal expansion. So this fits my model, and explaining gravity is just a bonus.
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Re: Pangaea will return

Postby vivian maxine on August 8th, 2016, 4:40 pm 

Watson » August 8th, 2016, 3:12 pm wrote:I was looking more at the several links bangstrom provided, looking for some indication why/how the earth grew by the apparent 20%. The one that got me thinking was http://www.dinox.org/expandingearth.html
It doesn't have an answer, but does offer some thoughts on the subject, which reminded me of my ideas from many years back. Back when things were written on paper, with a pencil.
The jist of it is, the Universe is expanding at the most fundamental level, such that we don't see it directly. The world we see and may measure expands in step with the Universe and what we measure over time is constant.
It was puzzling to me back then that a sphere like the earth would expanded away from the center in both/all directions, so the noticeable expansion would be slightly ahead of the over all Universal expansion. So this fits my model, and explaining gravity is just a bonus.


The planet breathes? No, not that much of an expansion. Is that 20% permanent?

Later. thanks.
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Re: Pangaea will return

Postby vivian maxine on August 8th, 2016, 4:53 pm 

What goes on deep in our oceans? I'm remembering the trenches and how they are expanding even now. Am I right?
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Re: Pangaea will return

Postby bangstrom on August 8th, 2016, 5:17 pm 

Watson » August 8th, 2016, 11:19 am wrote:Interesting, but where did the extra 20% mass of the earth come from? And go to, if there was a bigger/smaller cycle?

The increasing mass is a serious problem for the theory. The only possibility that makes any sense to me is that the earth has remained largely the same with no additional mass while the continents have grown smaller. The continents are largely chunks of low density granite “floating” on a larger sea of basalt. The earth in its early formation was far hotter and more fluid than it is now and it may have had a thick basalt crust covered by a uniform but thin layer of granite.

As the earth cooled, the granite layer began to solidify and breakup into the continents as we see them now with ever widening spaces between them as the granite layer began to thicken and sink deeper into the basalt with the weight of the basalt pressing in from all sides. This is like a man in a rubber boat. His weight presses the bottom of the boat down while the water presses against the perimeter of the boat forcing it into a smaller area.

The theory does not have a reverse. The videos explaining the theory are repeatedly going forward and backwards in time for illustration but there is no reverse where the earth loses mass and the continents go back together.
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Re: Pangaea will return

Postby bangstrom on August 8th, 2016, 5:29 pm 

vivian maxine » August 8th, 2016, 3:53 pm wrote:What goes on deep in our oceans? I'm remembering the trenches and how they are expanding even now. Am I right?

...and, if the trenches and expanding, what is contracting?
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Re: Pangaea will return

Postby Watson on August 8th, 2016, 5:40 pm 

Subduction (the sideways and downward movement of the edge of a plate of the earth's crust into the mantle beneath another plate. ) seems the obvious answer, but the links you posted suggest this is not happening.
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Re: Pangaea will return

Postby vivian maxine on August 8th, 2016, 6:15 pm 

bangstrom » August 8th, 2016, 4:29 pm wrote:
vivian maxine » August 8th, 2016, 3:53 pm wrote:What goes on deep in our oceans? I'm remembering the trenches and how they are expanding even now. Am I right?

...and, if the trenches and expanding, what is contracting?


Is the expanding trench only in the Atlantic? Is there one -- or more -- in the Pacific? And, of course, what Watson said - subduction of the plates. And that is happening. It is one of the things that contribute to earthquakes along the borders of the plates.

In a way subduction makes the planet smaller but it also pushes the mountains higher. So how is this planet being measured? And was it measured the same way a century or more ago?

So many questions. I have looked in every geology book that I have and none even mention this expansion. At least not in an important enough way to make the Index.
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Re: Pangaea will return

Postby doogles on August 8th, 2016, 6:27 pm 

Every time, I read a reference to the continents all being a part of one great land mass, I have to ask the question - Wouldn't this throw the rotating sphere out of balance and set up a 'wobble'.

I've had car wheel balances thrown out by lumps of adhered mud and the car becomes a vibrator.
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Re: Pangaea will return

Postby Watson on August 8th, 2016, 6:43 pm 

I think the car fixes itself shortly after you hit the highway, As for the earth wobble, a good point assuming the continental land mass are a significant part of the whole. But even if the was a concern, are we very balanced now? Seems the Americas are a little lightly represented on balance. And, what about when the Arctic ice mass melts? That should add further unbalance to the rotation and orbit. Seems we are somewhat stable in both cases.
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Re: Pangaea will return

Postby Braininvat on August 8th, 2016, 7:08 pm 

I had the impression that the crust is a very thin rind relative to Earth, so plate shifts are not going to add wobble. Though a shift of mass towards the equator might add a tiny bit to day length. Even the 3 Gorges Dam project is altering rotation a tiny bit.

btw, anyone recall a faux-political bumper sticker in the 70s, "Reunify Gondwanaland." Geo majors liked pasting them on their cars.
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Re: Pangaea will return

Postby Watson on August 8th, 2016, 7:50 pm 

Rind, like watermelon is thick. Even an orange is to thick. The earth's crust is more like an apple skin, so like you say, a few irregularities on the surface is not going to have much effects.
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Re: Pangaea will return

Postby JMP1958 on August 9th, 2016, 5:57 pm 

doogles » August 8th, 2016, 3:27 pm wrote:Every time, I read a reference to the continents all being a part of one great land mass, I have to ask the question - Wouldn't this throw the rotating sphere out of balance and set up a 'wobble'.

I've had car wheel balances thrown out by lumps of adhered mud and the car becomes a vibrator.


The "wobble" or vibration you feel with a wheel is due to the center of mass of the wheel not aligning with the axis of rotation. For the wheel the axis of rotation is fixed. The Earth is a freely rotating object. It always rotates on a line that goes through its axis of rotation. If you redistribute the mass making up the Earth so that its center of mass shifts, its axis of rotation shifts along with it. You won't get that unbalanced "wobble" you get with a wheel.
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Re: Pangaea will return

Postby Paul Anthony on August 9th, 2016, 6:18 pm 

I read recently (can't remember where) GPS is failing in Australia because the continent has shifted to the north by 5 miles. It wasn't clear what time frame that shift required. I think the movement is something like 3 feet a year. If that continues, Australia will bump into Asia, but not in my lifetime.
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Re: Pangaea will return

Postby Eclogite on August 10th, 2016, 11:19 am 

Paul Anthony » Tue Aug 09, 2016 10:18 pm wrote:I read recently (can't remember where) GPS is failing in Australia because the continent has shifted to the north by 5 miles. It wasn't clear what time frame that shift required. I think the movement is something like 3 feet a year. If that continues, Australia will bump into Asia, but not in my lifetime.
If it had moved five miles at 3 feet per year, that would have required 1,760 years to accomplish. Given that GPS has been use for only a couple of decades that is clearly wrong.

The facts: Australia has moved north by approximately five feet (not miles) in twenty years (not one year), an average of 3 inches per year. That is still fast by plate standards and five feet is enough to cause problems for GPS based on the 1994 position of the continent.
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Re: Pangaea will return

Postby Paul Anthony on August 10th, 2016, 2:11 pm 

Eclogite » Wed Aug 10, 2016 8:19 am wrote:
Paul Anthony » Tue Aug 09, 2016 10:18 pm wrote:I read recently (can't remember where) GPS is failing in Australia because the continent has shifted to the north by 5 miles. It wasn't clear what time frame that shift required. I think the movement is something like 3 feet a year. If that continues, Australia will bump into Asia, but not in my lifetime.
If it had moved five miles at 3 feet per year, that would have required 1,760 years to accomplish. Given that GPS has been use for only a couple of decades that is clearly wrong.

The facts: Australia has moved north by approximately five feet (not miles) in twenty years (not one year), an average of 3 inches per year. That is still fast by plate standards and five feet is enough to cause problems for GPS based on the 1994 position of the continent.


Thank you for that clarification. I was hesitant to say anything because I didn't have the facts, and couldn't find the source. My curiosity is sometimes a curse. I read too much and remember too little. :)
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Re: Pangaea will return

Postby vivian maxine on August 10th, 2016, 2:50 pm 

Paul Anthony » August 10th, 2016, 1:11 pm wrote:
Eclogite » Wed Aug 10, 2016 8:19 am wrote:
Paul Anthony » Tue Aug 09, 2016 10:18 pm wrote:My curiosity is sometimes a curse. I read too much and remember too little. :)


Gee! That sounds familiar! :-)
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