Page 1 of 1

New CERN LHC portal, shows live data !

PostPosted: November 15th, 2009, 9:12 am
by Xymox
I have created a web site to monitor the LHC LIVE. It has tons of very cool links that show the machine working LIVE

LHC Portal.

Re: New CERN LHC portal, shows live data !

PostPosted: November 15th, 2009, 9:38 am
by Nick
Xymox, do you have some sort of affiliation with the LHC? This forum should not be used for advertising/improving google rankings. If you want to tell people here about your website you are going to have to tell us more than just giving a link.

Re: New CERN LHC portal, shows live data !

PostPosted: November 15th, 2009, 11:40 am
by Lincoln
On the other hand, it's not a bad site....

I didn't explore it thoroughly though.

Re: New CERN LHC portal, shows live data !

PostPosted: November 15th, 2009, 12:53 pm
by Xymox
I am NOT in ANY way connected with CERN...

I am a FAN... I also have NO interest in "google rankings". I am a FAN of the LHC and have watched the project for YEARS and collected a awesome number of links and organized it into a cool portal..

So I am sharing a very cool tool...

I would suggest leaving the link in place for others to enjoy my effort to bring a mighty cool tool that can be used to watch LIVE data from the LHC as they circulate the first beam in a week and then first collisions..

Pretty cool to sit at your computer and watch the control room monitor displays as the live data comes through.

I would be happy to explain what to watch with links, directly to cern, if I am permitted to post links. It is way easier to use my portal tool once you know what to watch.

Re: New CERN LHC portal, shows live data !

PostPosted: November 15th, 2009, 1:47 pm
by Marshall
It is a worthy site. I saw your announcements on Physicsforums and and spent a pleasant halfhour enjoying all that stuff. You did a great job assembling it.

Anybody who wants can just google "Xymox LHC" and get your LHC fan-site portal.
But we should post a direct link to it here, since it is userfriendly and of considerable educational value.
So here is the link:

One thing I liked watching this morning was "ATLAS BUILT IN 5 MINUTES", which is here:

Apparently it appeared only recently, in September 2009, correct me if I am wrong. The thing is, it is actual webcam footage made into a timelapse montage. So you see real little people in hardhats scurrying around while this gigantic instrument gradually takes shape.

I like the "you are there" feel. Live webcams, status monitor screens showing realtime status of various systems, like you might see visiting a control room.

I like the UNOFFICIAL tone of the website, not as STUFFY as official institutional public relations outlets tend to be. What you have is clearly a volunteer labor of love, so it is actually a more effective channel than if somebody on CERN payroll had put it together.

I also like that you link to valuable older material, as well as the recent and realtime live connections.
Older material like these 2007 computer animations of ATLAS describing the various layers, what they detect, how they distinguish different kinds of particles and track them.
I would advise people to watch the 2007 computer animations first so they know all the main parts. And then watch the newly released 2009 timelapse webcam montage of it actually being assembled.

Re: New CERN LHC portal, shows live data !

PostPosted: November 15th, 2009, 2:34 pm
by Marshall
Xymox wrote:...I would be happy to explain what to watch with links, directly to cern, if I am permitted to post links. It is way easier to use my portal tool once you know what to watch.

That would be great! I forget the conditions about posting links. Maybe you have to have posted a few times (to discourage one-time spammers.)

If there is some kind of robotic response that blocks your posting links, please send me a PM----a personal message. You are definitely the kind of visitor/contributor we want to encourage.

I'd be happy to post any links for you which the system rejects. If the problem continues I will write to our Admin, Biowizard.

I think your kind of volunteer fan realtime live website has great potential as a medium of contact between major science experiments and the general public. In a word: It's cool.

Re: New CERN LHC portal, shows live data !

PostPosted: November 15th, 2009, 2:44 pm
by Xymox
Well thank you !!!!!!!!!

Very kind words...

I didn't post any links because i was worried you did not want me to... So i didn't..

I am just overloaded with responses for the site. I am aflood in emails...

Let me do this...

I need to redo the site some and add a "How to watch the LHC"...

So let me go work on that rather then posting it all here. If I make it part of the site, it will work wonders for everybody...

The BEST ATLAS video of all time is below. IMHO.. Make SURE to click the HQ button to get best quality.

There are ultra hirez versions of this on the CERN doc server they are 1.5GB each..

yes the "in 5 minutes" vid is great fun.... It has several versions too that are more and less the 5 min !.. I actually liked the kinda longer ones too...

Re: New CERN LHC portal, shows live data !

PostPosted: November 15th, 2009, 5:38 pm
by Xymox
Well I cant do all the science forums. So I have decided I like this one the best. The moderation was good. The other sites just let my posting slide. I think Nick's proactive moderation was good !

So here I will stay...

My fingers hurt from all the typing in the last 3 days..

I have updated my site with a "What is all this ?" link at the top of the portal links.. This is a first draft of a way to use the links to watch cern. It is all written so anyone can follow it.

Also I just got word from a ATLAS team member that my site is OK with them. So I have put back links to ATLAS.

Re: New CERN LHC portal, shows live data !

PostPosted: November 15th, 2009, 8:45 pm
by Lincoln
It turns out that Nick is an ATLAS member. I'm a CMS member. Neither of us speak for the collaborations, which consist of 2500 scientists in each, although a question about CMS education and outreach would often go through me, especially if the outreach effort originated in the US.

Re: New CERN LHC portal, shows live data !

PostPosted: November 16th, 2009, 1:34 am
by Xymox
I cant send you a PM..

Cool that LHC project members are on a forum. Good outreach !

Over at my forum I have setup a private forum for CERN members that would be a good place to discuss my site in private and maybe coordinate everybody being OK with the links on my portal. Maybe suggest more. I am going to verify cern membership by requiring a email from their NICE email address. I think I would also give CERN members moderator powers be default. I think that makes sense.

I have been working with 1 person at ATLAS and now 1 person at CMS. Both key people, making sure my links are OK with them from both a content/privacy standpoint and from a bandwidth standpoint. Not to mention all the emails with IT security to verify what I was doing was OK.

ANY cool links, things that make a geeky guy like me go OOOoOOoOOOOoOo,, would be cool if you guys know of any :)

I found a new ATLAS spot I really think is OOoOoOOooo earlier today I will add to my site shortly..

Im a sucker for OoooOOoOOOoOOoo espically if its got pretty colors and good graphics and is LIVE.

Atlas does that SO well compared with other experiments. Of course CMS status pages are all locked up and hidden away. So I dont know what they look like.

I tell you what... I want the upcoming massive press events to be a huge SPLASH from ATLAS. I am trying to convience ATLAS to have a big projected image of the detector and show a LIVE output so when first beam occurs its shows this HUGE Splash event LIVE and the whole room and all the press have something to go WoW ! about at the moment circulation occurs. You want a big gnarly EVENT image at the moment of circulation. This image would make front pages all over the world and would make headline CNN video of the "moment" beam circulated. What was sadly lacking at the 2008 event was something dramatic like a SPLASH event to make the event. Come on a little red dot showing the beam in the pipe ? Please....

Its gotta have a dramatic "WoW" moment. ATLAS and CMS could provide these. CMS can do a halo. Im sure LHCb and ALICE must have equal things they could do for the event.

Get all these together on one set of screens for the press guys and at the moment of circulation they would just go wild and love it.

SOMEONE NEEDS TO GET ON TOP OF THIS.. We have like a week before the event.

Come on,,,, make it fun for the public and for the press. Having these screens avaliable via the web would also allow everyone with a computer to watch it happen live. HOW COOL IS THAT ! -THAT IS OUTREACH-

Well I need to go do some updates on the site. "I'll be back" and I want you LHC project people to pressure your team to do something COOL for the press events. We need WOW factor !!!!

Re: New CERN LHC portal, shows live data !

PostPosted: November 16th, 2009, 1:54 am
by Xymox
This is interesting reading. Not that I believe that the LHC is ANY hazard AT ALL.. It is interesting reading.. ... 1884v1.pdf

"The existence of extra spatial dimensions [1, 2] and a
sufficiently small fundamental scale of gravity opens up
the possibility that microscopic black holes can be produced
and detected [3, 4, 5] at the Large Hadron Collider
(LHC). Since the existence of large extra dimensions permits
the formation of microscopic black holes, these large
extra dimensions and black holes will be searched for at
the LHC. Therefore it is important to study all of the implications
of the Randall-Sundrum (RS) model for black
hole production and decay at the LHC."

Re: New CERN LHC portal, shows live data !

PostPosted: November 16th, 2009, 11:29 am
by Lincoln
The LHC has brought beam halfway around the ring. Nov 7-9, this beam was run into collimators outside CMS. There are lots of splash events available. A simple explanation can be found here.

Circulating beam will occur very soon. First ATLAS will get splash, then circulation. This could be days.

By December 1 or so, we're talking about 900 GeV collisions in all four detectors. By mid December, the intent is to run at 2,200 GeV. This will surpass Fermilab's ordinary running conditions 1,960 GeV. (And Fermilab's record of 2,020 GeV.)

Beam goes down right before Christmas and comes up again in early January. Then we'll make a run for 7,000 GeV. There is a conference (at Chamonix France) at which the directorate will discuss running at 10,000 GeV. If this looks OK, they might get to that. After running for a year or so, they'll shut down and start fixing the splices and the overpressure protection. That'll take a year or two. Then hopefully 14,000 GeV.

Feel free to PM me about the people. The chief outreach person on CMS is Dave Barney of CERN and for ATLAS it is Michael Barnett at LBL.

In any event, feel free to bug me if you want. You can trust me on the Nick and me thing. Nick is a grad student at a noteworthy Brit university. I'm a much more senior guy. If you want to make sure I'm really a CMS dude, try

Re: New CERN LHC portal, shows live data !

PostPosted: November 16th, 2009, 12:51 pm
by Xymox
Dave Barney has suggested I reduce my links to CMS to just the public web site. I am begging and pleading the case now.

Michael has said he is good with my current links. I have mentioned they need to do a splash event display for the press on first circulation. You need to WoW the press.

My site has gotten tremendous attention at CERN with the vast majority of web site visitors coming from CERN, Its affiliated universities and partners with lots of IP addresss of home ISP's around CERN. In the last 4 days they are 70% of my visitors. 130 separate IP's, no doubt with more then 1 computer behind many IP's.

A overly detailed time plan, its in excel format.. Make sure to click the tabs along the bottom.. ... LHCBC.xlsx

Re: New CERN LHC portal, shows live data !

PostPosted: November 16th, 2009, 12:59 pm
by Lincoln
CERN PR policy is set by the director generale, as implemented by James Gillies, the CERN PR dude.

CERN does not intend to have a big event until they collide at 7 TeV. That's probably late January.

The experimenters need to follow the media plan. That's just how things are in Europe.

Consider yourself lucky. The current director is pretty open. The last one wouldn't tell his wife what he had for lunch...

Re: New CERN LHC portal, shows live data !

PostPosted: November 16th, 2009, 1:31 pm
by Xymox

Well the press is going to have a event on their own then at first bean, and for sure for first collisions. I would think CERN would want to at least offer some resources and would have some event ?

That would be surprising that no event is scheduled for first beam circulation or forst collisions..

You know....

I am dismayed.... The LHC is such a cool and awesome project but it seems its marketing of its coolness and generating appeal is sadly lacking.

Wonderful stunning tools are available as online resources and yet these have been not only underutilized but locked away. I put up a site that actually involves kids, teachers and the general public and my site is looked at with alarm. Cern could learn from my example.

Sorry... I am just a little upset.. I want the LHC to be liked by the masses and I want to bring the coolness to the public and I seem to be fighting for what to me seems like a very good outreach idea..

Sorry... I am a bit upset...

Re: New CERN LHC portal, shows live data !

PostPosted: November 16th, 2009, 2:03 pm
by Lincoln
CERN's plan is to have press releases for:

Circulating beams
Collisions at 900 GeV
Collisions at 2.2 TeV

There will be no hype for these milestones. I was briefed on Friday on the CERN communication plan for the next six months.

And then a big blowout for collisions at 7 TeV. I know for a fact (having just received an email from the DG...and no, it wasn't just to me) that CERN has given press credentials for over 100 news institutions. CNN, BBC, and the biggies will be there. My understanding is that the plan is to have continuous coverage for the 1 hour or so during which the first collisions will occur, but that decision will be made in concert with the press office and the various networks themselves. For all we know, some other big news event will bury the LHC's startup. We can all hope for a slow news day.

The reason that CERN is being cautious has a lot to do with September 19, 2008. Nobody wants to see that particular debacle recur. And I cannot speak for James Gillies, Michael Barnett or Dave Barney about your site, as I haven't spoken to them about it, but understand that there is no doubt appropriate caution when an unregulated site comes into existence. You could, in principle, go off on black holes, or claim something we don't, or something like that.

I am personally happy to see fan sites. But I can understand CERN wanting to keep control of its brand. We encountered a similar phenomenon when we broached Sony to give physics talks pitched at the "Angels and Demons" fervor of last May. Sony was reluctant to cede any control from their marketing campaign.

In any event, I have not been privvy to anyone's reaction to your site. But I certainly do wish you well.

Have you contacted the CERN press office and the Fermilab Office of Communication? The two of them (with something like an 85%/15% split) are the ones really running the show.

Re: New CERN LHC portal, shows live data !

PostPosted: November 16th, 2009, 4:23 pm
by Xymox
Sorry I am gonna rant a little.. Its been a ruff 5 days..

I started off a week ago thinking... OoOoo I could do a cool little web site that my little email list could share and use better. This email list was developed over years and is stuffed full with teachers, educators, fans and just lay people. I would email the newest stuff happening at the LHC and provide links. The teachers in High Schools and grade schools really loved it. I covered how the LHC has no way of ending the world for example.

I decided to make this fun web site. I looked up a domain.. OoOo lookie is avaliable !.. Cool !

I thought about it. I decided to contact IT security and make sure it was OK to point at the links I was considering. IT looked it all over and said yea, it was all ok..

I figured that was all I needed. I never considered that each experiment might have its own concerns.

30 minutes later I had a web site.. I added a forum.. That took a little time, like another 30 minutes..

In one day I had this fun "portal" to all the cool things at CERN..

I announced this to my mail list. I got a huge number of reactions in the days that followed. Teachers said kids spent hours playing and looking at things. Educators did classes using my portal to show the awesome engineering controls. The few press guys i had on my list at the time had a field day. The reaction was overwhelmingly positive. It seemed the ability to watch the machine run live and the ability to see even small elog notes of people working on issues live was really riveting. Making my site with frames so you can flip between the status of one machine to another and come right back made it far quicker to scroll thru lots of things fast. Organizing similar stuff like status, web site, web cams for each experiment also helped get a feel for the overall project.

It was, I felt, a huge success.. I was pretty proud...

I decided I needed to spread the word. I posted on these forums. I also picked out a list of people at CERN and emailed them..

I saw my web stats shoot way up. But not from the forums. From CERN. It was stunning. 150 separate IP's in CERN's hometown in one day.. Obviously my email had gotten sent to many others who sent it to many others.

From here on out. It got to be a issue. It ceased to be fun..

First up I got a email from Michael saying that I had set off "alarms". That my site was not necessarily a good thing. I had not considered that. I immd blocked all links to ATLAS and put up a note why I was blocking the links. I also sent a email to the DG begging them to not restrict access..

I also emailed my mail list with the bad news..

At this point the *** hit the fan..

I got emails from _major_ press outlets looking for a story as to why I had removed the links. I got emails from teachers who I had known for a long time who were upset with CERN's possible restricting access to the coolest tools they had for involving kids. It actually got ugly.

I spent A LOT of time emailing people to keep everybody calm. To keep the press from doing a bad story. To keep kids from thinking CERN was taking away their cool toy..

Michael wrote back and said they were good with the links. I was really happy !. I sent emails and everybody was "YES !"....

But no..... I have now realized that i have a difficult fight on my hands. As you mention above, each department at CERN will look very cautiously and warily at my site thinking I am some nut who is gonna say the LHC is gonna gobble the world up by creating a black hole. I understand and respect their fear... CERN has been through a lot. I understand.. But my site is not going to have anything but links. Its not going to have any content or pages. Ever. I have a forum. No one uses it !. As a admin i will keep control and make sure its not a bad thing. I also will make CERN employees moderators. There is already a private forum for CERN people. Not that there are any on my forum ! Proper CERN/LHC employees could have serious control over the forum..

The site will never be a threat. In fact, I am all about working with the LHC team to provide cool geeky fun stuff for the site. To HELP get over the bad reputation that has come about from previous events.

Personally I dont see any bad events. I see that everything has happened for a good reason. I think the LHC is better off having had a year to improve things. Several great improvements have occurred. Maybe it was fate. I think its all good. I think the birdy bomber incident was awesome fun !. It was -NOT- bad publicity. I think CERN should stop being so serious.. Start having some fun.. Look at the good side of the events, dont get all unhappy about them. The Birdy Bomber was FUNNY ! CERN should have rolled with it, maybe done a humerous video. Maybe CERN needs a humor department.

The LHC Rap is a great example of fun outreach.. Look at the number of views it has.

If the DG told me to remove the site. I would do so. I would put up a good argument first though. I would have teachers and press discuss the decision so I was not the only voice. But I would do what CERN wanted even if it was not what other wanted.

Actually... To be honest... All I really want is a tour underground. Gimme that and the domain is yours ! hahahahaha.... BUT I get to push one big red cool looking button. Just one. hehehhe....

whew not that was a ramble.. Guess I was a tad long winded.. Sorry.. Lots of pent up stuff from all this..

Re: New CERN LHC portal, shows live data !

PostPosted: November 16th, 2009, 4:30 pm
by Lincoln
Don't hold your breath on the underground thing. By January, access to the caverns will be forbidden for at least a year. Maybe more. Even collaborators have trouble getting down there now unless they are operations personnel.

The DG is a pretty good and reasonable guy.

Give the experiments a little while to get used to the idea. And include ALICE and LHCb.

Re: New CERN LHC portal, shows live data !

PostPosted: November 16th, 2009, 4:40 pm
by Nick
If you wanted a tour they were pretty easy to get up to about a year ago. Not only were they easy to get, they were more interesting. Now the detectors are fully built LHCb is interesting, but the others are kind of dull. They are also too big to really get an idea of the scale. It's like standing 1m away from the wall of a cathedral or some such. Personally I think ATLAS was more interesting to see when I visited it ~ 6 years ago, when we got to see some of the inner detector and the toroids than it was when I saw it about a year ago. LHCb is cool because you can see the different parts of the detector and I think it's got one of the old LEP detectors down there still.

Re: New CERN LHC portal, shows live data !

PostPosted: November 16th, 2009, 10:59 pm
by Lincoln
Given the radically different conditions of LEP and LHC, I'd be surprised if they had much in the way of retreads. I do know that ALICE has the old L3 magnet though.

Re: New CERN LHC portal, shows live data !

PostPosted: November 18th, 2009, 6:06 am
by Xymox
So LHCb was interesting...

You know.. Its like the least talked about experiment. But looking at it seems pretty neat-o

Yea a tour would be awesome. yea,,,,,, I know its now gonna be pretty much impossible until things shut down again. Plus im in the US and it would be a expensive journey.

While I have not heard back from anyone. Thats ok I am patient.

Well funny news.. When the press reports started about 17 hours ago it turned out my biggest site visitor was CERN !.. hahaha. I guess a bunch of them had bookmarked me and wanted to look at the status of the machine to see what was going on and used my portal because it made it quick to flip through the various machines ? I donno. But there was a very sudden pronounced CERN presence on my site about the time the news stories broke.

Im a bit burnt out with all the weirdness on this whole project of mine. So I might not be posting as much. In the days ahead I will be keeping my forum LHC status updated as best I can with what is going on and the schedule.

The beam should be on almost any moment now. Global machine checkout is going to commence and then the current schedule is that the first shit on saturday will do beam 1 circulation. Then second shift will do beam 2. Some splash events might occur Friday. The schedule is very much a "as you go" kinda thing. So the times of everything do not seem fixed. So things could happen early or later.

I would imagine watching LHC Page 1 comments will give a good idea of what is going on. ... p?usr=LHC1

My hosting provider has picked the next few days for a MySQL update. GREAT timing, so my forum will be intermittent.

I have wished the LHC teams good luck in the days ahead and that the force be with them.

Re: New CERN LHC portal, shows live data !

PostPosted: November 18th, 2009, 7:43 am
by Xymox

My web site got added to a fairly important internal CERN site..

wow... This is pretty cool for me. And people are coming from the link too. I can see it in the web logs.

Under external links

C o o l.... Thats cooler for me then a link in the public press...

AND somehow I missed the LHC outreach web site...

Its GREAT. ... -outreach/

Re: New CERN LHC portal, shows live data !

PostPosted: November 18th, 2009, 8:37 am
by Xymox
At least someone likes me at CERN. I was getting the feeling I was the bad guy...

Re: New CERN LHC portal, shows live data !

PostPosted: November 18th, 2009, 1:46 pm
by Xymox
The press stories have started..

I am humbled and very proud to have a story at The Register.

I do feel bad at how the story said some bad things about the cool guys at CMS.. But its ok. Maybe it might result in some cool access in the futire and more cool things for people to see on the web site..

CMS is mighty cool.

Of course now CERN will know I was the one who tipped off The Reg who was the one who broke the birdy bomber story.

Im getting 5000 new IP's a hour on the site. Thats huge bandwidth. I informed CERN. I had cleared with CERN weeks ago that they could handle the bandwidth. I hope they really can. The next 2 stories that will hit the press in the next day or so will be BIG news outlets. That will likely spread to many others too. ... tal_probe/

Re: New CERN LHC portal, shows live data !

PostPosted: November 27th, 2009, 4:46 pm
by icarus2