Are we born with ADHD?

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Are we born with ADHD?

Postby BadgerJelly on April 19th, 2012, 7:50 am 

Just throwing an idea out.

Could it be we are born with EXTREME ADHD and cross sensory perception and then this adjusted to the sensory stimulus we receive in our early years as babies to focus on the input we receive?
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Re: Are we born with ADHD?

Postby neuro on April 19th, 2012, 9:45 am 

BadgerJ,
I often feel ill-at-ease with your posts, because you use words in a very free and loose way.

I do agree that metaphores are useful, and using words in a vaguely suggestive way may sometimes help in refining concepts, but what is then the usefulness of words, in a scientific Forum, if they can mean whatever you wish?

ADHD refers to a spectrum of possibly inborn or acquired disorders which share a common syndromic picture: hyperactivity and difficulty in concentrating and maintaining concentration on a task. I am not going to discuss here the possible underlying genetic and pathogenetic causes and mechanisms.

Just look at a newborn baby while she is getting her milk and tell me if you really believe we are all born with EXTREME ADHD.

If your question is: "do we learn to discern and differentially handle the information coming from the distinct sensory modalities, or is this feature inborn"? in other terms "may synaesthesia be the default mode of our brain?"
then my answer would be "obviously not".

Each sensory modality gets to the brain through a distinct neural path, is elaborated in isolation by a dedicated primary sensory cortical area, is then further processed in unimodal associative areas and then relayed to multimodal cortical areas, where connections and cross-elaborations can be performed.

Still, this suggest that the perception of an "object" or an overall "experience" be by definition mutisensorial, i.e. generated by the inter-relations among the pieces of information derived from the various sensory paths. But this has nothing to do with synaesthesia, i.e. attributing a specific sensory characterization within a sensory modality to a sensory stimulus of another modality.
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Re: Are we born with ADHD?

Postby BadgerJelly on April 19th, 2012, 10:27 am 

Well I'm improving and hopefully the metaphors will reduce with time.

ADHD refers to a spectrum of possibly inborn or acquired disorders which share a common syndromic picture: hyperactivity and difficulty in concentrating and maintaining concentration on a task. I am not going to discuss here the possible underlying genetic and pathogenetic causes and mechanisms.


I know.

My point is really that this is not a "disorder" what ever that means?

I think what I am talking about is brain plasticity. We are born as sponges ready to absorb anything we can and grow quickly in response to input. I think it is obvious to anyone that children tend to flit from one thing to another. I think this is extreme in new born humans.

Another way to put this more concisely with what I mean is to say that our brain start out what in adult life we refer to as possessing the characteristics of ADHD and Autism combined and that these reduce very quickly and very early on due to sensory stimulus. So I am suggesting we have a highly plastic and genius like mind in our early days and this reduces over time equally in most cases but not in others and so we see ADHD and Autism.

So I am basically suggesting that the "disorder" is losing more of the Autistic (concentration) part of the brains ability more than the ADHD (Lack of concentration) part of the brain. This is a simplified way of looking at the plasticity of the brain I know but just wondered what sort of data there is out there to both support this idea as well as dismiss it?

Is this clearer?

Thank you for your patience.
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Re: Are we born with ADHD?

Postby owleye on April 19th, 2012, 11:38 am 

BadgerJelly wrote:So I am basically suggesting that the "disorder" is losing more of the Autistic (concentration) part of the brains ability more than the ADHD (Lack of concentration) part of the brain. This is a simplified way of looking at the plasticity of the brain I know but just wondered what sort of data there is out there to both support this idea as well as dismiss it?

Is this clearer?

Thank you for your patience.


I confess the world in which I was raised hampers my ability to be fluent in today's world, where every little thought one has can be texted to one's friends far and wide during which they can spend a few moments sharing it, but I can't help but believe something can be gained by reflecting on one's own thinking before launching it.

In this paragraph, though it is an attempt to clarify a thought you'd previously provided, which I find commendable, you introduce something like a theory of the brain, which, because it isn't based on having any expertise in the subject becomes more like someone who is merely wondering. So, as this, too, is commendable, my sense of it is that it should remain in that status and not be brought to the attention of everyone else until it has been worked on, typically by looking for assumptions and implications that weren't obvious during its formative stage. By not thinking things through before publishing them, it seems as if you expect others to do this work for you. And I can't help but think that this practice isn't going to help you gain the insights you need to understand the topic.

To give you a hint on what I'm getting at, one of the things that caught my eye in the quoted paragraph is the term: 'part', where you are thinking of these characteristics you speak of as parts. Not having all that great an understanding of the neurology of the brain, where my understanding is limited by the recognition that it does have its parts, which I deem to be the various lobes and regions that specialize and carry out certain functions, it just doesn't make a lot of sense to place ADHD and Autism into separate brain parts, as if they were separate regions of the brain one of which has the function of producing attentiveness and another of producing a deficit of it.

Despite this, though, this sort of thinking bears a similarity to the thought processes of the ancient philosophers wherein love and strife were separate gods, somewhat like there being a god of heat and the god of cold, so I shouldn't dismiss it entirely. One has to start somewhere. And possibly that you are behind the curve by thousands of years won't be a problem for you.

James
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Re: Are we born with ADHD?

Postby BadgerJelly on April 19th, 2012, 12:49 pm 

Good points owleye.

I think through PM's Neuro knows a bit about where I am coming from and I have read a few articles and watched a few documentaries on this subject and I also have a brain to refer to for knowledge of the brain.

Trust me I am doing the leg work but I may not know the terminology. From what I know Neuro his hobby is almost identical to my own interests in this field and hopefully he will choose to humour me until I get and read the textbooks I need to.
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Re: Are we born with ADHD?

Postby Lomax on April 19th, 2012, 1:19 pm 

BadgerJelly wrote:Trust me I am doing the leg work but I may not know the terminology. From what I know Neuro his hobby is almost identical to my own interests in this field and hopefully he will choose to humour me until I get and read the textbooks I need to.

Hobby?
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Re: Are we born with ADHD?

Postby BadgerJelly on April 19th, 2012, 10:45 pm 

Not having all that great an understanding of the neurology of the brain, where my understanding is limited by the recognition that it does have its parts, which I deem to be the various lobes and regions that specialize and carry out certain functions, it just doesn't make a lot of sense to place ADHD and Autism into separate brain parts


You are taking what I was trying to say out of context.

I'll translate the whole rather than bit part :

I think what I am talking about is brain plasticity. We are born as sponges ready to absorb anything we can and grow quickly in response to input. I think it is obvious to anyone that children tend to flit from one thing to another. I think this is extreme in new born humans.


I think this speaks for itself right?

Another way to put this more concisely with what I mean is to say that our brain start out what in adult life we refer to as possessing the characteristics of ADHD and Autism combined and that these reduce very quickly and very early on due to sensory stimulus. So I am suggesting we have a highly plastic and genius like mind in our early days and this reduces over time equally in most cases but not in others and so we see ADHD and Autism.


Now I've gone a bit off the rails. I don't literally mean we are we are born with ADHD and Autism but that we have these "possess these characteristics" when first born. Our brain is more plastic when younger and that the imbalance genetically of these characteristics causes the "disorders". The characteristics of Autism are an automated response rather than an interactive one and ADHD is the opposite characteristic laking automation and control.

So I am basically suggesting that the "disorder" is losing more of the Autistic (concentration) part of the brains ability more than the ADHD (Lack of concentration) part of the brain. This is a simplified way of looking at the plasticity of the brain I know but just wondered what sort of data there is out there to both support this idea as well as dismiss it?


Hopefully this part will now make more sense? the "concentration" and "lack of concentration" is not the best way to explain though. I think we all know that autism shows repetition of a task where as ADHD shows the opposite.

If you find me trying Owleye all I can say is am I doing my best and I do feel I am improving. I have started writing ideas down more rather than posting them here all the time but this one got me thinking and I REALLY wanted some feedback ... wish I had written it down and then returned to it the next day to "proof read" it. I'll be honest sometimes I read back what I have written and see its nonsense to anyone but myself.

I do have about 5 or 6 other things I want to discuss but I am going to think about how I present them before causing more and more confusion and annoyance.

ALL feedback is appreciated and I do try and take everything on board I promise because it matters to me.

Thank you
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Re: Are we born with ADHD?

Postby owleye on April 20th, 2012, 1:18 pm 

BadgerJelly wrote:
Not having all that great an understanding of the neurology of the brain, where my understanding is limited by the recognition that it does have its parts, which I deem to be the various lobes and regions that specialize and carry out certain functions, it just doesn't make a lot of sense to place ADHD and Autism into separate brain parts


You are taking what I was trying to say out of context.


The context of my remark was the paragraph you wrote from which my quote above was extracted and was included in my response. I'll repeat it here:

BadgerJelly wrote:So I am basically suggesting that the "disorder" is losing more of the Autistic (concentration) part of the brains ability more than the ADHD (Lack of concentration) part of the brain. This is a simplified way of looking at the plasticity of the brain I know but just wondered what sort of data there is out there to both support this idea as well as dismiss it?

Is this clearer?


I wasn't commenting on the content of your theory or your ideas. I was commenting on what I perceived as a presupposition, perhaps unbeknownst to you. I think it's great that you have an interest in this subject and are exploring it, but until you've worked it out to your own (perhaps provisional) satisfaction, I see no reason to examine its content. As to your criticism of my response, I'm not convinced that it is anything more than a rationalization. I know this is harsh, but I believe the main obstacle you have to understanding lies within you, and that you would be better served by more self-examination.

James
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Re: Are we born with ADHD?

Postby BadgerJelly on April 20th, 2012, 2:05 pm 

It is not harsh at all.

As I have said to you I believe my self criticism regarding my ideas is more than adequate. My self criticism and ignorance of my ability to express these ideas is the area I need to work on. I know what I think and I haev put a lot of time into thinking about many subjects now I need to learn how to translate this into coherent words without what is considered overuse by the vast majority of people.

I want you to be what yo call "harsh" with me so I can learn. Sometimes we won't agree and sometimes we will but I will always try by best to understand the points you feel you need to make to me for your benefit and for mine.

Anyway Neuro if you have no idea what I am talking about here then lock this thread and I'll take it up again once I can put this line of thinking into more precise words with use of terminology you will understand.

PLEASE though let me know if you come across any studies that interest you because I am sure they would interest me too.

Thanks
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