Memory: A cause for a paradigm shift?

Discussions on the philosophical foundations, assumptions, and implications of science, including the natural sciences.

Memory: A cause for a paradigm shift?

Postby skakos on January 8th, 2014, 6:09 pm 

Image

We may think we know where memory is stored, but we do not. Science has not figured that out yet. We have pinpointed areas of the brain which play a ROLE in the memory formation/ management (like the hippocampus), but we do not know the EXACT place where memories are stored. [see. Francis Crick, "Memory - From Mind to Molecules" by Larry R. Squire and Eric R. Kandel]

There are cases of animal experiments when a large portion of the brain was removed (and the part where scientists thought the memories were stored, according to the EEGs) but the animals continued to remember what they have learned! A recent example of such an experiment to its extreme was conducted with a worm: after the worm was decapitated, it grew a new head and still remembered all it had learned! [http://jeb.biologists.org/content/early/2013/06/27/jeb.087809.abstract, http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2360286/Meet-small-yellow-worm-REGROW-head--old-memories.html]

From Bergson to modern experiments, I believe the memory problem is one of the key problems that will lead to a paradigm shift in the modern materialistic neurology...

The brain is most probable just a reciever...
User avatar
skakos
Member
 
Posts: 604
Joined: 17 Nov 2012
Location: Athens, Greece
Blog: View Blog (4)


Re: Memory: A cause for a paradigm shift?

Postby Watson on January 8th, 2014, 6:43 pm 

I have heard of such things even in humans where part of the brain was removed and the person was just fine without it. It made me think the memory was associated with the spirit.
User avatar
Watson
Resident Member
 
Posts: 4570
Joined: 19 Apr 2009
Location: Earth, middle of the top half, but only briefly each 24 hours.


Re: Memory: A cause for a paradigm shift?

Postby Venus on January 8th, 2014, 6:47 pm 

skakos wrote: but we do not know the EXACT place where memories are stored.

I do not think memory is stored in one place. The brain is like a neural network, information is stored in a distributed fashion, almost like in a hologram.
User avatar
Venus
Banned User
 
Posts: 1408
Joined: 23 Oct 2013


Re: Memory: A cause for a paradigm shift?

Postby Obvious Leo on January 8th, 2014, 7:08 pm 

Venus wrote:
skakos wrote: but we do not know the EXACT place where memories are stored.

I do not think memory is stored in one place. The brain is like a neural network, information is stored in a distributed fashion, almost like in a hologram.


Exactly. Neuro wrote quite a major piece on this some time ago but I forget which thread it was in. With any luck he'll turn up and set the record straight. There is also a wealth of scientific literature around on this subject as MRI technology breaks new ground in neuroscience on an almost daily basis.

Regards Leo
Obvious Leo
Resident Member
 
Posts: 3146
Joined: 30 Oct 2012
Blog: View Blog (4)


Re: Memory: A cause for a paradigm shift?

Postby neuro on January 10th, 2014, 4:05 am 

skakos wrote:The brain is most probable just a reciever...


Curiiously enough, simple electrical stimulation in the temporal lobe revives memories.

So, maybe, it's not just receiving, is it?
At least, not quite "most probable"
User avatar
neuro
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 2631
Joined: 25 Jun 2010
Location: italy


Re: Memory: A cause for a paradigm shift?

Postby BadgerJelly on January 10th, 2014, 11:17 am 

I have read things about this kind of thing before.

From what I remember damage to certain parts of the brains may stop the development of new memories but still retain old memories.

The problem to me seems to be breaking out of the old scientific habit of categorising and using reductionist methods. From what I have read to date (limited I admit), the more research there is the more open the field becomes. The plasticity of each individual brain is another aspect of the difficulties involved in reaching precise conclusions.
User avatar
BadgerJelly
Resident Member
 
Posts: 5115
Joined: 14 Mar 2012


Re: Memory: A cause for a paradigm shift?

Postby skakos on January 11th, 2014, 3:27 pm 

As a friend of mine said "Organic memory isn't stored in any specific location, so they can keep looking forever. Such memory is inherently stored throughout the nervous system and even within the organs. Every interaction that causes hysteresis, causes memory".

But we live in the cosmos, and we interact with it...
Could that mean that memories are stored everywhere?

In general the idea of the brain being just a reciever is not as weird as it looks.

Image

See a TV. Watch closely. It generates image. You open it and see things inside it "work".

It generates image?

ALL data we have is equally compatible with the "brain generates consciousness" as well as with the "brain is a reciever of consciousness". (yes, if you break the TV you will not see images any more...)

But there are many good indications (from the Princeton non-local consciousness experiments to the NDEs and the lack of success in locating memory) which strongly suggest something you do not wish to see...
User avatar
skakos
Member
 
Posts: 604
Joined: 17 Nov 2012
Location: Athens, Greece
Blog: View Blog (4)


Re: Memory: A cause for a paradigm shift?

Postby SciameriKen on January 11th, 2014, 6:43 pm 

Hasn't anyone done an fMRI while asking someone to recall distant memories?
User avatar
SciameriKen
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 1330
Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Location: Buffalo, NY


Re: Memory: A cause for a paradigm shift?

Postby neuro on January 12th, 2014, 11:15 am 

skakos wrote:But there are many good indications (from the Princeton non-local consciousness experiments to the NDEs and the lack of success in locating memory) which strongly suggest something you do not wish to see...


"strongly" is quite a too strog word, isn't it?

What about "which strongly suggest there is something we cannot understand?"

or "explain"?

We can speculate whatever we wish. A perfectly consistent hypothesis is that we don't ever exist and consciousness is just a metaphysical entity which tells itself a story and memories are part of such story.

The point in PHILOSOPHY OF SCIENCE is to spot inconsistencies in scientific premises or methods, and to possibly suggest promising novel approaches to better understand reality (assuming reality does exist).

If one can revive a memory by electrically stimulating a tiny region of the brain, proposing that it is just like pressing the channel switch on the television, because everything actually occurs elsewhere, doesn't help much.
I'd prefer to investigate how such "switch" is connected, how is it possible that it produces a channel switch, and how the incoming signal interacts with the circuitry. But note that in a TV set the incoming signal is not different from the internal activity: both are electromagnetic phenomena.

The hypothesis that a totally distinct - unphysical - signal is translated into a physical signal is a nice speculation, with quite interesting philosophical implications (metaphysical, in particular), but has little to do with philosophy of science.
User avatar
neuro
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 2631
Joined: 25 Jun 2010
Location: italy


Re: Memory: A cause for a paradigm shift?

Postby Athena on January 12th, 2014, 11:47 am 

It is my belief that we under estimate the importance of our bodies. I believe memories are stored in the body. When we learn to drive or learn a dance, we can do these things on automatic without thinking through the complex process. I remember things by using my fingers.

I am quite sure my PTS can be triggered by excessive stress, and that it began with a hip problem. That the PTS began with hip problem is important, because when that hip deteriorated and needed to be replaced, that also triggered the PTS. I do not notice the confusion of PTS as different from the confusion I experience in old age. The confusion I experience now seems to be an energy thing. I live in an apartment for older people, and commonly when we are stressed emotionally or physically, such is in illness, our energy is low, and we experience more confusion and greater difficulty in making decisions. Some decision making involves thinking into the future, and that takes more energy, so we put off the decision for another day.

I am saying look at the whole body and energy level.

For switches, it would be great if we could find the consciousness switch and restart people's brains with they are in a coma. People in coma's can be aware but unable to effective respond.
Athena
Banned User
 
Posts: 1936
Joined: 22 Apr 2012
Location: Eugene, Oregon



Return to Philosophy of Science

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests